Don't touch that knee

Time immemorial (1187 IIRC) as it is common assault.

This letter to the Daily Telegraph puts the current sex abuse allegations into perspective...

Well, I suppose it's possible that whenever Tory MPs have an urgent need for salt, they grasp the knee of any young woman conveniently to hand.

If the woman happens to have a quantity of salt about her person, she should then tip it over the chap's head and watch it dissolve into slime.

And the same result if it's an arm? (Perhaps more pertinent to the post you are replying to.)

I think not only have we seemingly lost the art of conversation, but we seem to have forgotten how to flirt as well, which should be the negotiation part before one goes in and starts anything.

I think it may well be also allied to the fact that everyone is now glued to computers and smart phones these days and has simply forgotten how to do this stuff. Of course there have always been people whose brains are between their legs but in them old days, one stern look and a slap was all that was required to set the record straight.

Its all so very sad. Brian

Does that also work if it is a Labour MP? Or, if you cannot contemplate the possibility of a Labour MP behaving thus, if the Labour MP is groping the woman?

Men have forgotten how to "make a pass" and women to say thanks but no thanks. I guess all such business is now conducted on the web

Maybe I moved in more egalitarian circles than you, but I can't remember a time when it was appropriate for middle-aged men to grab the limbs of young female subordinates as a form of 'flirtation'. Note that no-one is actually trying to forbid touching among peers. This business about "the old days" (when it was apparentlly ok to rent out children in care homes to local dignitaries) seems to be a sleazy diversion to me.

Brian isn't talking about "grabbing". He's talking about that people seem unable to interpret non-verbal signals, AKA 'body-language'. Possibly due to that too much time is spent with electronic toys and working from home, and not enough in ordinary social interaction.

I think you have misinterpreted what Brian wrote.

He is saying that at one time people used to flirt using reasonable conversation , non contact body language which is all part of finding if there is a natural attraction between two people . If the process is two way and reciprocated they can later move onto more personal and ultimately more intimate interactions. Or one party may not be as interested and if they show no interest in going further their position must be respected.

He doesn't appear to have stated that

was actually part of that lost art of conversation and flirtation.

G.Harman

You missed my point here I think. Of course its not right hence my comments about flirting first. Brian

It's rather odd that hugging seems to have become far more popular over the last few years and not only with family and close friends of both sexes. Co-incident with the rise in complaints about inappropriate touching?

I know about this stuff due to my enforced lack of eyesight making flirting rather a hit and miss affair, hence my feeling about this. Brian

Ok, my apologies, Brian, for misunderstanding. But I really think that he misses the point. These men who are being criticised now probably were not interested in flirting as they knew they would not get very far; they hoped intimidation might be more effective, or at least more satisfying in itself.

Yes, sorry, I think I did. But these men are anyway not interested in a relationship on a basis of equals, they know they would not get very far.

I think you're supposed to ask first before feeling about, Brian.

Owain

The only thing worse than being sexually harassed... (What did Oscar Wilde say?)

It isn't a party political thing. Lord Rennard, a LibDem, was the most high profile offender. Of course, he'd still claim that he was wrongly accused and misunderstood. He's rather lucky that his case was done and dusted years ago.

Even though most politicians who have been outed are Tories it's inevitably going to be a problem that affects Labour politicians just as much if not more so. The "hand on the knee" scenario seems at the moment to refer to Tories. I expect Labour politicians put their hands in damper places.

When thousands of activists work hard canvassing and leafletting to get a candidate elected to office, only to discover that the candidate is using the opportunity to enrich himself and bully other people into having sex with him, it does make the activists want to get rid of the bastard and find someone with integrity and principles.

No, Roger. Whatever you do, 'really thinking' isn't in the frame.

You can have no idea whether tris was a serious sexual assualt or a put up job to further destabilise the government, or anything in between.