DIY Legality

[Mr Pounder]

[grimly4]

Ditto. Down on wall to the lower left of the cooker is what could be an electrical cooker cable outlet - with no cable coming out of it. I wonder if it's a bottled gas cooker with no bottle sitting next to it.

[damduck-egg]

You need to go to specsavers

It's a Pure Evoke ,will run of a wallwart or an internal recargable battery so mains voltage won't be that close.

G.Harman

[Ste]

Because that is the highest rated BS1362 fuse that can be used in a plug, and for which the plug and socket combination was designed. Even by your own logic, a "13amp" double socket outlet, must be able to withstand at least 26amp internally on its bus, and as I've said the next circuit breaker in line (i.e. the one that protects the socket) is typically rated above 30amps, and so the socket should be able to withstand at least that, too, and so should all the cabling that feeds it.

And as I've said, the evidence suggests that a 13amp fuse, which is itself supposed to be the very weakest component in the curcuit, can apparently withstand a current of almost double that without fusing.

[Ste]

No, it was warm to the extent that, if that degree of heating was found elsewhere in the context of things electrical, it might have indicated a potentially dangerous fault condition, but the fuse could be handled without actually causing pain and on close inspection there was no melting or charring of the fuse carrier and housing even after extensive use, so I satisfied myself that the worst that could happen was that the fuse might actually blow (which it never did).

[ARWadsworth]

You are incorrect.

And what current do you think it takes to blow a 30A fuse or 32A MCB?

[Lieutenant Scott]

Presumably the plug is NOT designed to take 26 amps, only a DOUBLE socket.

It's not supposed to forever.

[Lieutenant Scott]

[turns up ear trumpet]

[Lieutenant Scott]

That's council houses who get at least 5 child benefit payments.

I didn't write it. And it's is actually more logical.

[Ste]

I've come across it several times over the years. I would recommend better ways, but some people are very black and white in their thinking about what is reasonably acceptable in practice and what is not.

I'm pretty sure I've seen it on appliances manufactured much more recently than that (i.e. within the past 20-25 years).

The ban on its use in appliances, can be a function of nothing more than the fact that alternatives (like cable clamps) are marginally safer, but no more costly to implement in a manufacturing context - and so no matter how tiny the increment in safety, it is economically justifiable. In the context of non-experts doing work within their own homes, the unusual failure mode attributable to cables being knotted to restrain them within a housing, is dwarfed by the cost of implementing an alternative which might require materials that are not immediately to hand, or (disproportionately expensive) input from an electrical expert.

It is impossible to be clear about the exact nature of the setup. For sure, it has been implemented by an amateur who may well have made dangerous mistakes. We cannot even be sure that the cable has been knotted within the housing. However, if it has been knotted, then there was no oversight in respect of cable restraint, and the mode of restraint used is, in my opinion, reasonably safe and acceptable. The cable in question looks under-rated, though if it is the supply for the outlet, it may well be wired to a plug elsewhere and protected by a fuse appropriate to the rating of that cable.

Ovens rarely get that hot on any unguarded external surface.

I agree. There are an excessive number of appliances relative to the provision of electrical outlets, and the work is clearly not standard which may suggest that it is not safe to any reasonable extent.

A judge is unlikely to be an electrical expert, and has considerations other than whether the particular installation was safe.

[John Rumm]

I have seen 4 way extension sockets recently where the cord grip is actually a peg with a channel round it. The intention being that you wind a loop of flex round it in the channel for restraint. Kind of like a posh version of a knot but with some limitation on minimum bend radius of the flex...

Indeed. Since I get the impression the only reason the OP posted it was in an attempt to gather ammunition to berate some other internet lune with, its seems rather pointless analysing this too deeply.

Knotting it is not (pardon the pun) a way I would recommend doing it, but in some circumstances, may be preferable to an unrestrained flex. The reality of the situation is that this looks like a semi permanent lash up where the chances of the flex getting pulled are slim anyway.

I expect it just diverts to the left enough to nip round the end of the worktop then drops to the right of the cooker.

However, probably no worse (depending on actual flex conductor CSA) than a pile of COTS trailing leads doing the same job. At least the socket itself is likely to be of a better quality and more suited to repeated reconnection of different small appliances.

[Jules Richardson]

Do we have to?

[Mike Clarke]

Also used in (some) Xpelair extractor fans.

[Jeff]

Are you sure of that? Where does the similar white cable from the plug go to?

Jeff

[Jeff]

.

If you google Indesit cookers you will find that that model is available in both gas and electric, with very little difference in the knobs, however one telling factor is the lo0cation of the small pilot lamp.

Jeff

[Jeff]

Since it looks pretty certain that the bike has been 'photoshopped' onto the picture I am not sure that anything else can be trusted.

Jeff

[Jeff]

It depends entirely on the length of time that the current is applied for.

Jeff

[John Rumm]

No, we are saying it is probably better than having it unrestrained altogether, but there are many better and accepted methods of doing it. We have also cited a number of these.

Not sure we can, it appears to be wilful...

Come back when you are done...

[John Rumm]

Indeed it does, however the salient point is that its often significantly higher than many people would expect. A 32A MCB will take

45A pretty much indefinitely, and even 70A for a minute and a half.

[Judith]

Excellent - very informative - thanks