British Workers Wanted - Channel 4

from last night, still on catch up (I guess)
Didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know TBH
1) Benefits on offer to the "wont work" are far too generous if an unemployed person can say "I wouldn't get out of bed for 7.50 an hour" and/or "I rather spend the time at home with my girlfriend". We need to systematically reduce benefits for the fit and healthy the longer they are on benefits.
2) Employers have far too high an expectation from a minimum wage worker. The clue is in the word "minimum". Expecting a "self starter who can manage themselves and produce high quality work with the highest quantity of output", in an employee straight off the street is unreasonable. If someone *can* achieve all that then they are a *senior* grade worker and they should be paid accordingly.
But for the majority, new hires require management *effort* to train themn in the way to do the job that you need doing, teaching them the tips to get the job done better/faster that if left to their own devices they will never discover AND wait several weeks/months (not just a few hours) for them to get up to speed. You cannot expect the education system to have trained up school leavers in every single job that might be encountered as a job seeker, that is the task of *management*. Stop whinging about how the available hires are lacking in these skills and do your own bloody job properly, before complaining that someone else can't do theirs properly.
3) The problem in 2 is exacerbated by the minimum wage being too high. This idea that any/every job should pay a "family living wage" is political nonsense. Employers must have the scope to pay people in training what they are worth to the company. And that is never going to be the living wage. Of course you have to ensure that once they reach the expected ability level employers do actually reward staff for that, and not just continue to pay them the in-training "pittance"
4) Why do employers waste so much money on agencies. I have no idea what margins for this type of casual work are, but most people with recruitment "skills" wouldn't get out of bed for 50 grand (they'll just go and work for an employer who pays them more). I understand that genuine casual work (such as catering at an event) requires agency staff, but if you have an ongoing requirement for a worker why the fuck are you paying the agency margin week after week. Take the guy(/girl) on permanently and use the money saved to increase the guy's (girl's) wage when they reach the required performance level.
Until we solve these (completely self inflicted) problems, things are not going to improve
Oh and the current crop of school leavers needs to drop "the world owes us a living" attitude that some of them seem to have.
timmy
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I'd love to see the likes of you live on 7.50 an hour. But it will be the usual 'don't do as I do, but do as I say'.
--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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London SW

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tim... presented the following explanation :

As did I, but these days they expect and get everything now. A struggle to survive, until they get on a firm footing, is just not a part of their expected deal.
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On 17/11/2017 11:15, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

As did I, but these days they expect and get everything now.
I think Corbyn and Co and their fairy money stories got the snowflakes all frothing around the mouth and believing his tales.
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It was long before Corbyn that the idea of having to live in a shared house was unacceptably "slumming it" for benefits claimants.
that started with A B Liar.
tim
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Plenty of them don't, including the two I bought a house for because they weren't physically in the town where the auction happened.

Not a struggle for these two, they save at one hell of a rate.

It still is for plenty, including the ones I torrent movies for.
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they're in a very small minority
for the majority of "millennials", I think we are supposed to call them, their idea of savings is having enough money left at the end of the week to treat themselves to an extra Starbucks coffee on Monday (Yes I know that they probably don't budget weekly)
tim
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Its far from clear that that is how the majority of them operate and I do in fact know quite a few of them personally.
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Makes you wonder why we bother with civilisation at all. It would be easier to live rough, which some people do.
--
Why is it that when you transport something by car, it's called a shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it's called cargo?

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wrote:

It is a hell of a lot more than I earned when I was an apprentice, where we had enough for travel, food, one evening out with just a couple of beers and to pay at bit of 'rent' to Mum and Dad.
And we accepted that because rather than contribute, we initially cost the company money to train us.
Looking back, perhaps we should have got a bit more, but at the end of it we came out trained and with skills enough to command a decent wage in the future and was because the company was prepared to take the hit on us initially rather than employ folks who already had more skills.
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Yellow wrote:

When I started work in the stores of a factory, we were like the lowest of the low. The company wanted to give us a slightly bigger pay rise than everyone else. A quid a week, something like that. The union kicked up a fuss about 'differentials', so it never happened.
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You must have had an odd union. And a very shortsighted one. If management offer a pay rise to one group of workers that would normally be accepted gratefully. Then the subject of differentials brought up at the next round of pay talks.
--
*Haunted French pancakes give me the crepes.*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't have any other union experience to compare it to, so I don't know. In the end, I saved myself a few quid, and cancelled my membership. A few people fell out with me, but no-one I cared about. The meetings were pretty scary anyway - a few loudmouths dominating the proceedings, and (since it was pre-secret ballot days) the voting. That may explain the shortsightedness - sheer envy by a few hotheads?

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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

a very shortsighted Union ! still lots of them about http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/19/postal-union-march-london-royal-mail-row-continues/
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The law needs changing. Go on strike, get fired, end of story.
--
They say that when a man holds a woman's hand before marriage, it is
love; after marriage it is self-defense.
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A very typical one in the 60s/70s especially if it involved giving more pay to women.

--
bert

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On 17/11/2017 13:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Err, no. The 'them and us' union attitudes of the 70's not only existed between groups of workers in the same company but between the unions as well.
I recollect, the electricians union was run by a bloke that the others (Scanlon, Jack Jones etc) utterly hated. I only had to contend with Clive Jenkins running ASTMS in the 70's.
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Of course unions are going to try and get the best deal for their members. That's their job. What do you think it is?
It's rather odd really. Capitalist want a free market. But not when it comes to those who are employed.

My union seemed to exist quite nicely alongside the ETU. The previous one I belonged to had quite a few members who wished it was as radical as the ETU.
The bid problem is that most get their views about a union via the meja. Members of that union may well see things from a totally different perspective. False news isn't a recent invention.
--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 18/11/2017 15:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Err, all summer we have had endless strikes on Southern and Thameslink because ASLEF had joined the RMT in a dispute that was about 'safety'.
Lo and behold, by accepting the chance to earn up to £72,000 a year, the safety issue seems to have been quietly dumped.
In other words it was a dispute about money all along.
They're going to have a shock. Driverless trains and tubes are going to be a much easier implemented reality than driverless cars and HGV's.
Watch this space.
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