British Workers Wanted - Channel 4

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Quite. Thus if you agree 119 isn't generous for a single OAP to live on, just how is half that generous for a younger person?

[Andrew]

According to Kaspersky, today I am in Mexico, so you can do all of the above and no-one will catch you.

[Mark]

That would be a step in the right direction.

Agreed.

[Andrew]

Housing benefit pays the rent.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Please explain how a single younger person needs half the money to live than an OAP does? Surely that is reasonably like for like?

[Yellow]

That is of course a load of rubbish. Many people do not have cars and not everyone can even drive so saying they are a necessity is clearly incorrect. As for washing machines, why is there a launderette in my local parade of shops if everyone has them? So again, clearly not a necessity.

Phones are darn handy and would hate to be without mine so will bend on that one, but that does not mean you have to have the latest IPhone costing hundreds of pounds and an expensive contract. My phone is unbranded and came from Amazon for under £60 and is a lovely bit of kit and I have a sim that costs me £7.50 a month.

I am not so sure that food is more expensive on average, but accommodation clearly is.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Plenty OAPs work too. Perhaps part time. And not always through choice.

Not quite sure how that matters when it's a question of providing someone with enough money to live on. Unless you really do believe there are vast numbers who choose to be truly unemployed. As opposed to those who claim benefit while working for cash, etc.

[Mark]

We are discussing both. The minimum wage and unemployment benefits are linked and cannot be considered in isolation. Obviously there should be incentives to work, but that means work should pay well, not that benefits should be squeezed so that people cannot manage.

Not easy for most. I'm sure (almost) everyone wants a higher standard of living but there aren't an unlimited amount of better paid jobs available.

[Andrew]

Not since April 2016. Much more now, and many people have Serps entitlements too.

Plus free bus travel, heating and council tax discount for those with less than ~£16,000 in savings.

How much is free travel worth in London ?.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Of course unions are going to try and get the best deal for their members. That's their job. What do you think it is?

It's rather odd really. Capitalist want a free market. But not when it comes to those who are employed.

My union seemed to exist quite nicely alongside the ETU. The previous one I belonged to had quite a few members who wished it was as radical as the ETU.

The bid problem is that most get their views about a union via the meja. Members of that union may well see things from a totally different perspective. False news isn't a recent invention.

[Mark]

Especially if they're trying to get better educated or trained in order to get a job, not cheap. And travelling to interviews etc costs quite a bit too.

[Yellow]

That £119 figure is incorrect.

The current pension starts at £155 (plus inflation increases since it was introduced) and anyone on the old pension and only receiving the base amount will be getting other benefits.

The young person's benefit is supposed to be a stop-gap, not a life style choice, and if they cannot afford to live on their benefits then they have the option of getting off their arse and working.

And I find it as depressing as hell that there are people out there that think we should encourage young people not to work by paying them enough in benefits so that they never need to.

That is not being kind or benevolent but as evil as f*ck and is taking away any and all possibilities for improvement and a better life.

[Mark]

No it isn't.

For many they are. How do they get to the shops, job interviews etc if there is no suitable public transport? Or are you a Norman Tebbit fan?

Wrong. You may be fortunate to have a launderette, but most have gone now. There are none near where I live, for example. I used to use them.

I never claimed this.

I am on PAYG so have no automatic monthly costs, even cheaper.

It is. Check the stats.

Correct.

[Andrew]

What about all those Blacksmiths, Carpenters, Wheelwrights and Sellers of Lamp Oil that you will find on the 1911 census, who lost their jobs when farmers bought tractors and installed electricity ?.

Did stampers of Vinyl records feel aggrieved too when everyone moved to CDs ?. Now the people who made CDs are out of work because eveyone is streaming, or going back to Vinyl ?.

When Nissan started their factory in Sunderland they employed precisely ZERO people with existing 'experience' of the British Car making industry because they knew they would just be tainting their virgin workforce with the appalling attitudes and union-activities that were the norm at Longbridge, Browns lane and Halewood.

There are thousands of longterm unemployed in Mythyr Tydfil who found it a struggle to travel 30 miles down to Cardiff for work, when a million east europeans, speaking no English came a 1000 miles and found lots of work. Some of them found work in Mythyr Tydfil in the meat processing factory !.

[Yellow]

I doubt there are many in their 70s and older with a job.

You do understand that unemployment benefit is supposed to be a stop- gap, to hold you over just until you get another job?

[Andrew]

So, after a lifetime on 'disability' benefits they now have a full contribution record, just ready for the new £155 /week flat pension (plus juicy extras) and a 'free' NHS to treat their smoking-related and weight-related diseases.

[Yellow]

You might have been, but I was discussing unemployment benefits in the posts you replied to. But whatever. :-)

The problem we have, which I am sure you recognise, is that some unemployed people would rather just take the benefits if the were enough to live on comfortably in the longer term.

So it is a balance.

And I believe that is the goal of Universal Credit (if they can ever get it right!) to improve the transition into work by letting people lose their benefits at a slower rate.

Always an "ah but" when this is discussed.

Benefits are too low -> so get a job -> but jobs do not pay enough -> so work more hours or train for a better job -> but there aren't enough better jobs....

Except there are. There is a skills shortage in lots of areas but people have to start somewhere by getting off benefits and taking a job! And from there you can progress. But if you stay unemployed and on benefits you will never progress, never get a better paid job, ever.

[Andrew]

We had two cats and one day there was some left-over broad beans in a saucepan, and ginger scoffed the lot.

[Andrew]

Or 2 hours on a succession of green line buses down to Epsom to use Grandmas washing machine (and sunday dinner too).

[Max Demian]

If there's a chance to better yourself you would be more likely to be prepared to postpone holidays, clothes purchase, house repairs &c. You also have a chance to replenish savings spent on replacing a car if you are earning.