Why are motors not current limited?

[gfretwell]

My first experience with teapots was in New Zealand. You can really cook up a couple of hot dogs pretty fast. Other than that I was not sure what to do with it. I don't drink much hot tea.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

But since there's no fuse in the plug, the only thing protecting the WIRE to the device is the 20A fuse at the fusebox. Since it's a 15A device, it doesn't have a 20A wire.

How quick are your reactions? The average person is a third to half a second. WAY too long to stop a motor being damaged by a jam. And anyway, if you work a tool just a little bit too hard, you don't know it until you see the smoke.

It take it there's no shutters on your sockets then?

Why all this "allowed" nonsense? It's your house, you do what you like. I've got a 2 pin shaver socket with an adapter to plug 3 pin devices into it. They work fine without the ground.

[trader_4]

Obviously you have little experience with hand-held power tools.

And anyway, if you work a tool just a little bit too hard, you don't know it until you see the smoke.

See above.

This from the stupid wanker who's trying to tell us how to do things.

I've got a 2 pin shaver socket with an adapter to plug 3 pin devices into it. They work fine without the ground.

They work fine without the ground as long as there is no fault. If there is a fault, then without the ground on an appliance expecting one, you can be electrocuted. Why don't you go try it? The correct adapter has a short ground wire that is supposed to be connected via screw to the receptacle, though few people do that. Even that may be of no value, you could have an old box with no ground at the box.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:53:58 +0100, trader_4 wro= te:

e anywhere in the house. Power tools, fan heaters, kettles, irons, two = things on one adapter, there are so many things that half the power just= ain't enough for. It's so much more convenient in the UK to be able to= power anything in any room from any socket.

heat hot water to make coffee, tea, or to put in a saucepan to cook food= ?

would you plug that in in your home?

Yeah, run a 20A device off 15A, wonderful. The rating is how much it us= es typically. In the case of a hoover, that's when it's idling (more po= wer used with more air going through it). In the case of an angle grind= er, that's when you're making it cut through something. You'll find a l= ocked rotor is way above 2200W, that's why without protection it would d= ie in seconds.

-- =

Federal Expresso: When you absolutely, positively have to stay up all n= ight.

[trader_4]

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 11:43:39 AM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote :

e:

anywhere in the house. Power tools, fan heaters, kettles, irons, two thin gs on one adapter, there are so many things that half the power just ain't enough for. It's so much more convenient in the UK to be able to power any thing in any room from any socket.

eat hot water to make coffee, tea, or to put in a saucepan to cook food?

would you plug that in in your home?

s typically.

Show us your cite for that.

I see, so you "typical use" for you is just watching a hoover idling. You just watch it, like a TV?

(more power used with more air going through it).

Every vacuum I've seen has air going through it even when "idling".

In the case of an angle grinder, that's when you're making it cut through something. You'll find a locked rotor is way above 2200W, that's why witho ut protection it would die in seconds.

Of course everyone but a moron would let go of the trigger in a second or less. Still waiting for spec definitions that show what exactly the 2200W is based on. It's very typical for worst case to be based on locked rotor. And I've shown you spec sheets for 110v angle grinders that also show 2200W rating. They don't require a 30A receptacle. Bottom line, there is no problem. We regularly buy and use even 9" angle grinders on 15A, 120v circuits. Go look at HD or similar websites. And we live in houses here, not industrial fabrication shops. Who even needs anything but a modest angle grinder in a house, if at all, to begin with? Maybe you should be concerned about changing the oil in your car instead of how US homes are wired.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

You must have some weird breakers. Ours make contact with live (er hot) and neutral (dunno what you call that) so they can tell if some as leaked to ground.

Now if you only have the shitty breakers without ground fault protection, you'd have two per dual-socket, as they're +120 and -120. So replace that with a dual line 240V breaker.

So much easier in the UK without two lives (er hots) to worry about. One line is zero volts, only one wire can give you a shock. We don't have to worry about isolating two lines.

It isn't beyond its rating. The current is one tenth of the rating.

We don't need AC over here. Oven and range is the same thing, we have something we call a "cooker", which has 4 hobs on top and two ovens inside with a grill. That and the water heater are indeed stationary like yours. But everything else can be moved. Washing machines, dryers, dishwashers, all using 3kW. I don't have to rewire my house to shift a couple of kitchen appliances.

You can't make heating more efficient. We heat with natural gas, which is a fraction of the cost of electricity. It's stupid to change that to resistive heating. A few change it to heat pumps, but then that's using electricity where none was used before.

My computer uses way more power than it did 15 years ago.

TVs may be more efficient, but we have more of them.

My lighting uses less power, but I just added more lights, so it's nice and bright like a sunny day in here.

[trader_4]

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 12:16:25 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote :

and neutral (dunno what you call that) so they can tell if some as leaked t o ground.

Different weird. And one of your fundamental problems is that you can't understand anything that is different.

you'd have two per dual-socket, as they're +120 and -120. So replace that with a dual line 240V breaker.

Just how stupid and uneducable are you? It's been clearly explained to you several times here that while we have double receptacles all over the house, relatively few are wired as Edison circuits, shared neutral, which is what you're describing above My house for example has NONE wired that way.

line is zero volts, only one wire can give you a shock. We don't have to w orry about isolating two lines.

And that's how all the receptacles, all the lights in my house and most houses are wired, one hot, one neutral. The shared neutral arrangement is found here occasionally, it's a small percentage of all circuits.

g maximum current. I've used a 12VDC switch rated at 10 amps to control a

240V light at 1 amp.

Beyond the VOLTAGE rating, idiot.

ur Hoover wires are like.

l take any plug from USA, Australia, China, EU or the UK, and some others, I think the total was 8 completely different types. They just have some od d shaped holes which are a combination of all the different prong positions . Very handy as I can buy cheap stuff off Ebay from abroad and just plug i t straight in.

you were a child and had a single lightbulb and a TV set in the room.

Your opinion. But then you're a cheapskate. Obviously other people do have AC in the UK and I've stayed in places in the UK that had AC, thank God.

Now they are not, at least not here. An oven is just that, an oven. I have double wall ovens and a separate cooktop. A range is a stove that combines an oven and cooktop.

we have something we call a "cooker", which has 4 hobs on top and two oven s inside with a grill. That and the water heater are indeed stationary lik e yours. But everything else can be moved. Washing machines, dryers, dish washers, all using 3kW. I don't have to rewire my house to shift a couple of kitchen appliances.

I don't have to either. I can move my coffee grinder, kettle, microwave and plug it into other receptacles in my kitchen. I have no need to move my disposal or dishwasher. And if I did, it would be part of a kitchen renovation which is involved and moving a circuit is no big deal. The disposal, dishwasher are on their own circuits behind/under the counters. Good grief, this is beyond stupid. Even the fridge, if you moved it, you need a new receptacle, we don't just put extension cords on them and plug them into a counter receptacle. Same thing with the washing machine and dryer, we don't need to bring them into our living rooms. Capiche? No, of course not.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Why are you so obsessed with code?

Unless you have inductive and capacitive loads....

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

America is 3rd world compared to Canada, they were fascinated, just like Africans when you show them a mirror.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Well I tap my foot waiting for a 3kW kettle, so with yours I'd be waiting 4 times longer!

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Your camping kettle as we'd call it (you seem to have the same power rating as silly little portable things we run off a car battery in a tent) would take ages to make anything more than one cup of tea. What if you're going to cook a meal or make drinks for 5 people?

[gfretwell]

Triplin harmonics really just affect 3 phase but maybe that is what you have there.

[gfretwell]

I would use my 9000w stove if I was cooking for anyone. Drinks here are usually cold, not hot. I can't think of the last time I drank hot tea.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

That magically changes your reaction speed and makes it better than every one else does it?

If you need X cutting in half, you do it with the tool you have available. A tool should be designed to refuse to cut it, not kill itself attempting to do so.

I do what's sensible, not what the law tells me to. Some people can think for themselves.

Who gives a f*ck? You only need live and neutral to power a device. Earth is for girls.

[Clare Snyder]

And a Keurig is a 1500 watt unit both in Britain and North America. The old style "canadian" (made almost exclusively be GE Canada) tea kettles are 1500 watts, the newer plastic "international" kettles are

1200 watts.

The 3Kw kettles days are numbered in Europe and Britain as well. The EU is outlawing them, which means unless the UK builds them for domestic use only, their days are numbered there too.

[rbowman]

Melitta Bentz invented the coffee filter and Gotlobb Witmann invented the first electric drip brewer. The Germans take care of important matters while Brits fuss around with teaballs.

[rbowman]

My camping kettle is powered by a Svea 123.

Being a close relative of a gasoline blowtorch it gets the job done.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:08:55 +0100, trader_4 wro= te:

te:

like anywhere in the house. Power tools, fan heaters, kettles, irons, t= wo things on one adapter, there are so many things that half the power j= ust ain't enough for. It's so much more convenient in the UK to be able= to power anything in any room from any socket.

ou heat hot water to make coffee, tea, or to put in a saucepan to cook f= ood?

uck would you plug that in in your home?

ng/dp/B01MTCD0QQ

uses typically.

Buy yourself a plugin energy meter.

No, but it uses less power when it's having difficulty sucking air throu= gh the hose. Half the time it will be sucking it freely.

Idiot. Do you understand what happens during the use of a vacuum cleane= r? Do you understand the load on the motor and how it changes when you = block the hose?

ough something. You'll find a locked rotor is way above 2200W, that's w= hy without protection it would die in seconds.

Which isn't enough to stop it hurting the motor.

Buy yourself a plugin energy meter.

Wrong.

But they'll overload a 15A one. Fine if you only use it for 5 minutes..= ..

I prefer not to overload circuits.

-- =

Two men were talking. "My son asked me what I did during the Sexual Revolution," said one. "I told him I was captured early and spent the duration doing the dishes= .

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Your breakers have to cope with two lives, ours don't. Why make things so complicated? Why don't you just have one breaker per side? 120V and neutral?

Not my fault you have such a dodgy wiring system.

And since the current is so low, that makes up for it. Learn about arcing.

No, virtually nobody has it, as it rarely gets over 20C outside.

Almost all ours have both together.

And I don't have to rewire, I just move the appliance and plug it in somewhere else, because the UK has a clue how to make sockets available for anything.

Why do Americans have those? Why do you put food down your drain? Don't you have something called a bin?

There are sockets everywhere, I plug it in whatever is closest, 5 minutes of manually shifting the appliance and plugging it into whatever socket is closest.

Who said living room? Stop making up shit to help your waning point.

[trader_4]

He's not obsessed with code, he merely pointed out to you that you don;t know WTF you're talking about, *again*, and Edison circuits are normal, safe, and MEET CODE. The neutral current will never be greater than the breaker rating. For example, a 20A circuit will have 20A breakers and use 12g wire. There will never be more than

20A flowing in the neutral.