Hi,
Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle switch that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would suddenly go from normal strength (lights working properly) to just a trickle (lights not illuminating) even though no electrical work of any kind had been done in the suite recently and the breaker is at the "on" position?
Thanks in advance for your replies, Darro
Hi, Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.
Bad connection or failed use of "back-stabbed" recepticals in one of many preceeding daisy-chained outlets in the circuit.
Not sure what is meant by 'just a trickle' (how was it measured?). Domestic electrcity is not like water etc. it's either on or off.
The best test is using a regular light bulb, not a test meter which can pick up stray induced voltages. If electricity is leaving the circuit breaker, with it in the on position, is it reaching the switch?
If it is and goes through the switch (again using the light bulb), then there may be break or fault in the neutral or return path to the circuit breaker panel. The neutral path and wiring does not (in North American practice) go through the switch!
If not familiar with electricity get someone who is to trouble shoot it. Agree it could very easily be bad connections, cheap components such as switches, outlets or light fixture that have just got tired/ deteriorated.
Could be simple problem but on occasion time consuming to find. Takes an hour, plus time coming to location to find a damaged 75 cent item. Time finding problem, one hour. Time to fix problem five minutes.
The current may have gone down because:
Now reread the other responses for some serious answers.
Jeff
*Nothing lasts forever. Things break down. Some possibilities are that the switch is bad, a connection became loose or failed, bad circuit breaker or some really bizarre wiring from a previous do-it-yourself homeowner whose inept installation is manifesting itself now.
Stray voltage means nothing. You may have a GFCI open on an outlet that supplies that circuit. A wire may have popped off the switch or at an outlet that supplies it, Switch can fail or something else shit the bed.
As I understand it, that's a problem with digital meters and with analog vacuum tube meters and FET VOMs (neither of which are likely to be found anymore), all of which have impedances of 11.1Megohms/volt, or thereabouts. But with a cheaper analog meter the impedance is
50,000 ohms per volt, a sufficient load that stray voltages are dissipated by the meter and so they don't show up in the meter reading.The cheap needle meters sold at Home Depot and Radio Shack, and better meters sold at yard sales are 50,000 ohms/volt and that's marked on the white faceplate.
I agree with all this.
Hi,
50K Ohm/V DC analog meter is damn good at their time! If it were on AC scale I don't recall I ever saw one.
You seldom see a 50K/V DC meter. Most were 20K/V DC and 5 K/V AC. Maybe the other fellow added an extra 0. Some were around 1 K/V DC that were mostly for electrical work and not electronic work. Those would probably be even beter for use by most home owners.
Yup, I am electronics back ground from vacuum tubes to SMT, nano tech. Still have old Simpson 260. Fluke, Triplett 650 VTVM for my RF work. Variac, old analog scope Tek, tube tester, frequency counter,etc. I use them all the time. Still go on the air chatting in Morse code. I am an old fart, LOL! Now most work I do for fun is fixing vintage guitar amps for my son and his music buddies. I wish I could play electric guitar or bass. I am a life time low brass guy. Still play in a local concert band.
Maybe that was it. Maybe I just saw 50,000 in some later year. It's hard to remember. Of course I have almost everything I've ever owned, mostly in the basement, so I'll try to remember to check and get back to you guys.
And yes, there was a seperate value for AC, but somehow that never came up in conversation, and I forgot. Thanks.
It's something I read once or more times, or someone told me once or more. No one was trying to make money on me. :)
They still sell cheap needle meters at HD and RS, probably just one model at each, (and probably expensive ones too somewhere.)
Specification: * DCV: 10 - 25 - 50 - 500V * ACV: 50 - 250 - 500V * DCA: 25mA - 250 mA * Battery: 1.5 / 9V Check * R: x10 - x1k * Battery: 1.5V AA * Accuracy: +/- 5% F.S. * Size: (inches) 2.5x3.9x1.3 * Weight: (Lbs) 0.28
Advantage: * Mirrored scale reduces errors to parallax * 14 versatile ranges with competitive price * Ideal for shop, home, boat ,car, office and school ===>* 2K Ohm / V DC/AC sensitivity * Recessed input terminals for safe use * Fuse & Diode protection
Package Content: Test leads included Warranty : 1 years
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I hate this crap, and many vendors tell you the shipping right upfront.
That Google Products someone here showed me is pretty cool.
These are new designs, they didn't have 10 or 20 years ago. I wonder who they make them for. Who uses most cheap analog meters. Perhaps, non-Amerians?
It's those damned electrons, on strike again of course.
Darro wrote:
Do you have a high voltage probe to attach to your 260 for measuring CRT voltages? I think I have one some where. One day I'll inventory all the tools I have and probably find things that I thought were long lost.
TDD
I am going thru this same situation. I have 2 outdoor lamp posts wired in series that went dead. My cheap little 2-wire test lamp will light up at either post, but when i wire up a working lamp, it does not. I have concluded i have an underground short and the wire must be replaced. So whats the consensus on that? i'd love to know before i start trenching...
I have a RS analog about 30 years old that functions about as well as a Simpson 260. I can't remember whether I built it from a kit. It's
50kohm/25kohm DC and 10kohm/5kohm AC.
Have you ever forgotten to turn off a DMM? It doesn't matter with a VOM (unless you drop it).
If you normally use a DMM for resistance, you can remove the batteries from a VOM. It will always be ready and there will be no danger of leaky batteries.
You leave a VOM in place to monitor a circuit indefinitely. The wrong needle position can be easier to spot than the wrong digits.
A VOM can provide a second opinion on a DMM reading, such as stray AC.
Lamp posts should be wired in parallel. A short would trip the breaker.
Weren't the bulb sockets already wired? Is it an incandescent test lamp? (If it's neon, it could be glowing from "phantom voltage.")
With no bulb in the socket, does your test lamp glow when connected between the terminals of the socket? Does it fail to glow with a bulb in the socket? If the test lamp didn't glow, I'd go to the house and check the beginning of the cable for voltage. If there's voltage at one end but not the other, there must be high resistance somewhere between.
There may be a series of lamp posts, but i'm pretty sure you have them wired in parallel. If you actually do have them wired in series, that could account for why they don't light up. Below I say you should buy a meter, a volt-ohmmeter, or mulitmeter. If you mesure the voltage across the lightbulb with the lightbulb screwed in, and it's
55 or 60 volts ac, then indeed you do have them wired in series like you say.To be blunt, you'd be a fool to start digging based on the little bit of info you have now. Buy a meter and learn how to use it.
Neon lights use very little amperage so maybe they can be powered by an induced current, but regardless, the only way to know what's going on is is with a meter, and if it shows unusual things, some time spent thinking about the results, or asking someone if necessary.
Since you seem to have stray voltages, it's worth buying a low-impedance meter, one that uses a moving needle, (at 20,000 ohms per volt, which you might see in black in a corner of the white scale plate where the needle moves.)
It's probably pretty accurate, but you can verify that it is by plugging the meter into the two slots on any wall outlet or extension cord, but before you do that, make sure it is set to AC V. AC volts, on a scale at least 120 volts, probably 200, at the setting switch.
Then when you measure the voltage, you'll will be able to learn far more than what a tester light tells you. If you don't know how to use the meter, post back.
You could have a bad circuit breaker feeding the circuit for example.
Unless someone has been digging with power equipement in the area of the wire, I have doubts if you have a short or an open in the underground portion.
P&M
Good list. This one especially. Heck, I have a phone machine on the side of my desk facing the door, but I walk right by it all the time, even if the light is flashing and I have a message. A needle in a different is far easier to spot than an 8-segment number, all of which have the same shape but some have different segments lit.
I forgot to say that this thought reminds me of those who fix their car by replacing one part after another, with too little testing first. If you're paying a mechanic and he can put in a 10 dollar part in 5 minutes, I don't like it but I admit it can be cheaper than paying him to spend 15 to 30 minutes on diagnosis, but people do this with expensive parts too. And car electrical parts come out and go in, usually with little trouble. Here you're talking about digging up the yard.
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