Why are motors not current limited?

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

I can't be bothered doing the calculations, but are you telling me that an inductive load in series with a resistive load will produce no neutral current in the middle?

[krw]

Or, worse, harmonics.

[krw]

Not true.

[Jack]

Yes, Edison circuits MEET CODE but because of the potential mayhem lurking with an unbalanced load and a loose neutral, you won't find one in my house. Too much risk, not enough reward.

[Clare Snyder]

Then you better move to England or somewhere else that does not use a center tapped power supply, because your whole house is fed by a large edison circuit, and a single loose neutral throws the whole house system off-kilter.

You are going after the wrong boogey-man

[trader_4]

Yes, that's a different question, whether they are worth it or not. I don't necessarily disagree with you. Another issue is that some homeowner who knows something about electricity, but like JWS doesn't understand how they work, screws around with it in the future. But the point here was that they do work, they don't somehow overload the neutral and that is recognized by them being described in the code and acceptable.

[gfretwell]

You can bother yourself if you want but it is true. Triplin harmonics in 3 phase are a problem but we do not see it in single phase. Even in

3 phase it takes a fairly specific load to cause the problem. A building full of solid state fluorescent ballasts seem to be the worst if they are not PF corrected. Most commercial grade are these days, just for that reason. Commercial lighting should make you happy though since it is usually 277 volts.

[gfretwell]

Show me

[gfretwell]

The main advantage is reduced voltage drop on a circuit that goes to the far end of the house. You might even find them that you don't know about because they were not required to be on a 2 pole or handle tied breaker until fairly recently. The requirement to have a common trip was applied to multiwire circuits in 1987 but only if both sides landed on the same yoke. (a split receptacle) There was no requirement before that. It was not until 2008 that the NEC required all multi wire circuits to have a common trip. When you understand that most jurisdictions take a while to adapt the new code. you can have a pretty new house with a multiwire circuit landing on 2 single pole breakers that are not even required to be grouped, much less handle tied. The typical multiwire circuit in a house will feed bedrooms or general lighting loads on the far end of the house and be split out in a ceiling box so they never land on a single yoke. .

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

We're leaving the EU,. precisely for that stupid reason. Making a kettle lower power does not save power, it just makes it take longer. They're doing the same with vacuum cleaners. As we're not going to be in the EU, they can shove their stupid treehugging rules up their arses.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

I drink cold drinks too, but I'm unusual in the UK for that. How powerful is one hob on your stove? We usually boil the water in a kettle, then add it to the vegetables or whatever in the pan on the stove. Kettle 3kW, one hob about 1.5kW.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

The Germans would have made the world a far better place if you hadn't got involved in the war.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

I don't take any source of heat camping. I see camping as minimalist, I take only what I need.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

And what did getting to the moon achieve for America? Are you mining it or something?

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Are you a virgin?

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

I always live around several pets. Parrots, cats, budgies, etc.

[Clare Snyder]

Previous to 1974 in Canada. Had pullouts in my old fuse panel - house built in 1974. Helped my dad wire houses in the sixties and thry were all paired then too. That was for not only single yoke but any time the 2 circuits existed in the same box (lighting switch on one circuit and recepotacle on the other in a ganged box, as an example - or two lighting switches on different circuits)

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

That can't be right. Just thinking about it simply - the current leads or lags the voltage with different types of load. So the centre point (neutral) has to have current going in different directions at different times.

Why 277?!

[gfretwell]

How do you "pair" fuses for general lighting circuits. They are usually screw in plug fuses. That is why the code did not require it.

[gfretwell]

I used to say that too but it does not seem to be an issue.

One phase of a 480wye.