Is this true about Home Depot all inside signs had to have the Spanish equivalent ????

Do you have kids?

While they were learning, did they have servants to venture out into the world for them to buy food, or did they find merchants who spoke their native language?

The "fact" is that the best time to learn language is from birth to age

Just the facts. If you doubt them, call your nearest school and ask to speak to an experienced speech therapist. You won't do that, though.

In those days, people with similar languages or that came from similar countries used to settle in certain areas so that you could always find someone that spoke your language. I remember as a kid going into stores and when the storekeeper starting speaking their native tongue to my mother, she would reply "Speak English or we will never learn how to".

The best way to learn is through immersion -

Exactly. Right now we are giving a choice and they are taking the easy way out by only speaking their native tongue.

Would you or your children be interested in picking vegetables for four or five bucks an hour? How about cleaning hotel rooms, or washing dishes in restaurant kitchens for minimum wage (if you're lucky)?

Of course, that's an inaccurate observation, since you don't like these people, so YOU don't interact with them at all.

This really has become a hot issue, hasn't it. I am sympathetic to people who feel that laws ought to be enforced- even as I am dubious about the practicality of it- are the Solons in D.C. capable of passing anything that is realistic enough to be enforceable? Strongly doubt that. People are drawn here by market forces- legally and otherwise- and these incentives are not weak. Of course it could be disorienting to find nobody who speaks English at an HD- but this reflects the customer/ workforce market reality of that particular location. Hispanic immigration is of course a big wave compared to that from other areas, but these people do learn English- it is in their interest, as others have noted. They don't always do so immediately, but in 30 years they'll be complaining that their grankids can barely speak Spanish. Remember, the U.S. has been through this before- late 19/early 20 century. My best friend's Italian grandmother never did learn to speak English, like many of her generation. Her daughter was and granddaughter is a shoolteacher, and my friend an exceptionally literate if underemployed bookstore employee. I'm not against border control/ enforcement, but find myself preaching market economics to conservatives, who are all for effective governmental action. Actions which impact the market could have some effect on illegal immigration- for example, strong enforcement of wage and hour laws, reducing incentive for employers to hire illegals. Also, a high gas tax, which could be rebated to federal tax filers through some sort of credit, pushing us toward toward energy efficiency. Those who don't file obviously wouldn't get rebate. Well, I'm probably just stirring the coals with my "foolish liberal blather." In general, it has seemed to me as I've gotten older that hypocrisy makes the world go round; not the most uplifting thought, but it could be a lot worse. Helped Oskar Schindler save some Jews froim the Nazis. People imagine that if only we take such and such harsh, draconian actions, we will finally have an orderly, controlled world, and all will be hunky dory. I'm sure we could improve the situation- if we act with some wisdom, some firmness, some compassion, but it's always going to be a messy, disorderly world- thank god.

Sadly, there are no Hispanic people like that. None. Absolutely none. Zip.

And if you drove to Liberty City, they speak Ebonics . In the early '80's English was voted as the official language in Dade County. That was with a 45% population of Hispanics.

Ever talk to a computer tech in New Delhi?

Oren "My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."

I am 57 years old. I have heard story after story of people (mostly my father's generation) of kids that were punished for speaking anything but English. The parents would learn from their children bringing English into the homes. They wanted their children to be AMERICANS. Not HYPHEN-AMERICANS!

Steve

What the f*ck is that supposed to mean? You won't do that?

FYI, retard, I'm currently in Spanish lessons. I feel this is necessary. So would I if I was planning an extended trip to a Spanish speaking country.

Steve

"Doug Kanter" wrote

If they wouldn't learn English, I would not expect any more of them than that.

Steve

What it means that I doubt you'll actually pick up the phone and ask to speak to a speech therapist about why it takes longer (or forever) for adults to pick up a second language.

By the way, here's a response that's not allowed - it's already been crushed in lots of other identical discussions: "I'm taking language lessons, and they can, too". It's not always true, for any number of obvious reasons.

That's not the point! If we do what some would like, and eliminate or severely curtail the flow of "illegals" into this country, how do you think we'd replace the labor that they're willing to do? Or, to put it another way, your 16 year old kid says "Dad, I just got a job. I'll be bent over in the sun for 10 hours a day, swinging a very sharp knife at brocolli stems right near my ankles. The crops are sprayed with some sort of chemical a few days before they're picked, but the guy at the interview said the stuff was safe to touch. It's four bucks an hour".

You OK with this scenario?

In article ,

This is BS. Four things would happen. For some of the jobs, Americans would fill them at the same wage. For others, Americans would fill them for more money (and the costs of those would go up). Some would be to a greater or lesser degree mechanized and the rest would disappear. Probably the latter would be mechanized.

When the illegal immigrants get their guest worker status (as proposed), and later GC/citizenship, it's very unlikely that they are going to stay in these jobs...

Mechanized: No. Some crops cannot be harvested by machines. If they could, John Deere would already have machines to do it, and farmers would be delighted to own them.

As far as costs rising, you've got that right. I suspect it would be disastrous, especially for people who already have a hard time affording decent food. How about $5.00 a pound for lettuce, instead of the usual $1.00 to $3.00? We're already in for a big surprise in the grocery business if oil keeps rising in price. Three years ago, freight rates were in the range of $1.25 to $1.50 per mile. Now, they're $1.75 to $2.75, depending on direction of travel and the availability of backhauls.

In article ,

Not if there are methods to do so that are cheaper/more available. There is no incentive to look precisely because the other way is available. Illegal immigration that is studiously ignored by government essentially is a subsidy to farmers. It is Econ 101.

How about "Dogs and cats. Living together!" So it is okay if the illegal immigrants work at slave labor in areas that you suggested in your last post are chemically dangerous for artificially low wages so you can save a couple cents on lettuce.