How does a Wi-Fi only tablet route on Google Maps when on the road?

Ragnusen Ultred wrote: [...]

Why do you keep re-asking a question which already has been answered several times (in this thread)? [1]

'Normally', you keep re-asking when you don't like the answer, i.e. nearly always. What's your problem this time? [1]

[1] This is one of them rethorical (hysterical?) thingies.
Reply to
Frank Slootweg
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Dne 31/03/2018 v 16:14 nospam napsal(a):

Imagine I know it well.

Imagine I know it well.

Without connection to get wifi location info ?

It does not exclude what I said.

Have I said otherwise ?

Have you noticed I did not ask you ?

Reply to
Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž

When you have it working without cellular, without GPS, how well does it track? If it works just by knowing which wifi spots it sees, it would seem to me it would be quite erratic in the typical urban setting. For example, going down a highway, with GPS, if I make a left turn it knows instantly. If it's just using which wifi it sees at the moment, then it would not know that I turned for some decent interval and I'd expect that it would instead show you continuing on the highway, then maybe 1000 ft later, suddenly correct and have you instantly jump from the highway to the side street. And by then you could be onto a side street and it wouldn't know that either. Do you see that?

If not, then it still remains how it can now accurately where you are. I can see using wifi spots for general location to an approximate area, but not for showing an accurate route when there are quite a few possible streets, roads, parking lots, etc that you could be on.

Reply to
trader_4

yep. it only needs to see nearby wifi networks (not connect or log in) and does a database lookup of the bssid(s) it sees. signal strength is also part of it.

Reply to
nospam

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 23:24:02 -0600, schrieb rbowman:

Thank you for trying to answer the question as an adult.

Yes, it's clear to all of us that every access point is broadcasting a unique BSSID, whether it's secured or wide open, is broadcasting the BSSID (which, for this thread, we can call an SSID even though, technically, they're different in that the BSSID is supposed to be unique while the SSID often is not unique).

And we all know that google *online* servers have this information, along with the signal strength (as explained prior) and location of the phones that reported the access point BSSID to Google.

Ah. Do you see what you just said. Where is the WiFi connection when you're just driving down the road.

That's the fundamental dilemma with any answer that requires a connection to the Internet on a tablet that has no cellular data functionality.

You see the dilemma since you mention a connection to the Internet, which isn't going to be possible in most cases of driving on the road.

So how does it work, if it doesn't connect to open unsecured wifi access points?

Yes. If you connect. But once you connect then nobody disputes that a connection to the Internet will identify the location (by a variety of means).

The problem here is there is no cellular data possible, and you're driving along the road so you're not likely to be connecting to access points that you don't even know - but certainly you can 'see' them.

So the question here is whether Google *stores* that BSSID location data inside the offline map database that you download with Google Maps.

But it seems to work WITHOUT a connection to google!

That's the technical dilemma and the reason for the question! :)

Remember, we're talking about a tablet that has no cellular capability and no GPS capability and we're driving on the road so we don't know anyone's SSID or passphrase, and yet, Google Maps _still_ knows where you are.

How?

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 01:49:36 -0400, schrieb nospam:

The question here is whether Google *stores* that BSSID:location data inside the offline map database that you download with Google Maps.

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 23:27:30 -0600, schrieb rbowman:

What you bring up is the exact reason for the question. :)

Let's state the obvious first:

  1. The tablet has no GPS and no cellular data is possible.
  2. The tablet is in the car which is driving down the road.
  3. That means there is no way to connect to an AP unless it's wide open.
*So how does the WiFi-only table know where it is when driving on a road?*

Certainly the tablet "sees" the many secured and unsecured WIFI AP BSSIDs. The tablet also knows their signal strength (which approximates nearness). Of that there is no doubt.

How does the tablet /still/ know where it is even when it has no connection to any of the access points that it can clearly "see"?

That's the question.

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

Did it know where it was, at the time? Or maybe it stored the visible access points and then pieced the location together after the fact, once you got back home and connected back to your own wifi?

Reply to
Andy Burns

why you fail to comprehend the numerous explanations, and not just in this thread either.

Reply to
nospam

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 15:57:02 +0100, schrieb Andy Burns:

Hi Andy, I think you're on to something, because in the accidental test I had run, I was at the local library where I was on the Internet, so, yes, Google Maps /knew/ that one spot perfectly well, because the tablet was on the Internet.

But then, I drove.

Looking down at the tablet on the passenger seat, I was shocked to see the blue dot move, along where I was, but in fitful jumps. Huh?

Then I pulled over, and did a "route' back to the library, and lo and behold, Google Maps, completely offline, showed that route. Huh?

It not only showed the route, but it showed the blue dot which, roughly, was where I was driving (which was in the opposite direction from the library since I was going home).

Since I live in remote mountains, at one point, the blue dot just locked in place in the area of a little village, and it stopped moving.

So, I /think/ it's using WiFi (and not Bluetooth) but I don't know how it could do that /unless/ Google Maps stores the BSSID:Location pair for all access points in the offline Google Map.

The only other possibility I can think of is that every once in a while the tablet connected to a wide-open (aka unsecured) AP, and in that fleeting moment, Google Maps accessed the Internet to determine the location of that connected AP. But that seems far fetched, does it not?

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:14:47 -0400, schrieb nospam:

Sometimes, you actually get it.

I was pointing out to nospam you were being, as Carlos said, "nonsensical".

Your post, as always, didn't apply in the least to the thread topic.

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 15:41:28 +0200, schrieb Carlos E.R.:

Exactly.

Sometimes, you actually get it.

I was pointing out to nospam he was being, as you say, "nonsensical".

His post, as always, didn't apply in the least to the thread topic.

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

Am 31 Mar 2018 14:26:15 GMT, schrieb Frank Slootweg:

Frank, Why I have to explain the /simplest/ of things to you is not only sad, but it's a waste of time because you will /never/ add one iota of technical value to /any/ thread.

But, to explain the obvious, I repeat the question because (a) it has been unanswered, and (b) it's an attempt to keep the focus of the thread on topic.

That you can't possibly comprehend a thread topic is obvious since you /never/ ever once posted an on-topic response to /any/ thread.

So keeping the thread on topic is irrelevant to someone with your stellar lack of comprehension.

Similarly, people like 'nospam', whom you're quite similar to, will say the topic has been answered and yet, (a) it hasn't, and worse (b), they have zero purposeful intent in any post.

To wit, has this question been answered, Frank, or not?

Q: Does Google Maps store the BSSID:location pair /inside/ the offline map database ... or not?

HINT: To Frank and nospam, this is more than a yes:no answer, which nospam just guesses at. If you say yes or no, we have to figure out how to prove whether it's yes or no.

Reply to
Ragnusen Ultred

perhaps you'd also be shocked that a lot of incredibly smart people work at google, far smarter than you are.

Reply to
nospam

ALL cell phones made in the last decade, or more, have GPS built in. 'Tis the law, at least in the US. Whether it's useful to any particular app, is another question.

Reply to
krw

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That's the theory but we're talking about a US government agency. iirc ten years ago or so they tried to force the chipset makers to include GPS capability. Being good capitalists the chip people quickly realized that paying fines for non-compliance was cheaper than including the functionality.

It's like NextGen 911, which is a source of amusement in our company. There are a lot of mirrors and much smoke but no progress.

Reply to
rbowman

The thread and question is about tablets. Do try to pay attention.

Reply to
trader_4

IIRC, they can't even sell phones in the US without GPS.

Reply to
krw

Once again, Traitor shows just how stupid he really is. Read the post directly above mine, moron. It's easy, you even kept it in your asinine response. Your brain cell is really getting lonely Traitor.

Reply to
krw

My iPad has no GPS and I can turn Off GPS on android. Location still works.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

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