Earths can be dangerous

[Cursitor Doom]

Try removing the live as well, just to be *totally* safe. ;-)

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

I do try to hide wires as much as possible, but they're clever and can find things I haven't thought of. The less lives and earths available the better. As long as they never find one of each far enough apart to go through their whole body, no deaths.

[Cursitor Doom]

I'm not sure he was trolling. It *is* actually a valid point, although he seems to have gone about explaining it in a bit of a daft way. There are times when it is essential from the safety point of view to remove the Earth reference. When I'm troubleshooting big switching power supplies, I *always* remove the Earth reference by means of an isolation transformer. But you have to know what you're doing, and removing the Earth from domestic appliances is not something a non-electrician should

*ever* even contemplate.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Think about it this way, earthing or not earthing a washing machine has the following advantages:

Earthed: If the live wire inside the machine touches the chassis, it blows the fuse and fails safe. Non-earthed: If you do touch a live anywhere in the kitchen while your leg is touching the washing machine, you can longer complete the circuit and won't get a shock, only a tingle.

I consider the second scenario to be far more likely to happen. I've never known a chassis to become live due to an internal fault. But damaged flexes etc etc elsewhere can mean you create a path to ground through the earthed chassis. And if you've unearthed everything, even if the first scenario did occur, you can't get a shock!

[trader_4]

Nice to know you hump your washing machine. It also explains why in that other stupid troll thread a couple weeks ago, you went on about how you could move your washing machine anywhere in the house. Now we understand. You take it to the bedroom to f*ck it.

[Cursitor Doom]

Yes, I understand your argument perfectly well. The problem I am having is that the electrical regs and safe practice protocols have been formulated and revised again and again and again by some extremely clever and highly qualified professionals who have taken the totality of the subject and placed it under the closest possible, exhaustive, pier- reviewed study over the course of many decades. They have, in their infinite wisdom decided that overall and on balance, it is necessary for metal-cased appliances to be earthed. If you think you know better than all that collective knowledge, wisdom and experience, you are deluding yourself. Seriously, you need to think again.

[Johnny B Good]

====snip====

An interesting concept. Have you not considered what actions Messrs Murphy and Sod might take in response to that gamble? I mean, it's almost like you're throwing down the gauntlet. :-)

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

If you "understand my argument perfectly well", why do you believe the morons that make regulations? They're paper pushers without common sense, and most likely in it to make money from constantly having people with nothing to do wander around and sign off red tape. It's like speed limits on roads suited to Ford Anglias with drum brakes. The simple fact remains, electrocution requires a COMPLETED CIRCUIT. Inside your house, if nothing at all was earthed, electrocution would be almost impossible. Only outside your house would you encounter an earth (the ground). By all means earth electric mowers etc, but not indoor appliances, it's utterly pointless and very dangerous.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

That's about as sensible as believing in god.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

And if electric companies had the sense to provide a floating supply, then you couldn't get electrocuted to ground inside or outside the house. Why do you think building sites have isolation transformers? Because earths are dangerous!

[None]

You continually feed trolls, why is that?

[Cursitor Doom]

I understand what you're getting at; that's all. I don't agree with your solution AT ALL.

Nonsense. The regs are refined over many decades to try to make electrical appliances as safe as possible. Every time there's some accident involving electricity, the full circumstances have to be established. Careful notes are made by properly qualified electrical engineers and in due time their recommendations for improvement find their way into the next revision of regs in a continuous, cumulative process. Over the course of time, electrical safety gradually improves. Clearly you have no appreciation or respect for this process and nothing I can say will change your mind. So on your own head be it. Best of luck!

[trader_4]

You just continued the troll thread with another post, while complaining about trolls. Why is that?

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Anyone like yourself that believes paperpushers over their own common sense clearly lacks intelligence. I suppose you drive at the speed limit too? Or stop at a red light when nobody's coming the other way?

I'm still waiting for some reasoning as to how you'd get an electric shock with no earths present in your kitchen.

[None]

Evasion noted. Why do you continually feed trolls? Dull blade, Menstrual, Burpford, etc?

[trader_4]

morons that make regulations? They're paper pushers without common sense, and most likely in it to make money from constantly having people with noth ing to do wander around and sign off red tape. It's like speed limits on r oads suited to Ford Anglias with drum brakes. The simple fact remains, ele ctrocution requires a COMPLETED CIRCUIT. Inside your house, if nothing at all was earthed, electrocution would be almost impossible. Only outside yo ur house would you encounter an earth (the ground). By all means earth ele ctric mowers etc, but not indoor appliances, it's utterly pointless and ver y dangerous.

n you couldn't get electrocuted to ground inside or outside the house. Why do you think building sites have isolation transformers? Because earths a re dangerous!

Moron, one more time, buildings in the US other than residences have ground ed neutrals too, as required by code. IDK where you get your BS from. Th e residential code is contained in the one set of NEC that covers it all.

Feel free to continue your troll rant. The above if for anyone else who cares about the facts.

as required by code

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

sense clearly lacks intelligence. I suppose you drive at the speed limi= t too? Or stop at a red light when nobody's coming the other way?

hock with no earths present in your kitchen.

If you're having trouble thinking about circuits or lack thereof, have a= ponder as to why a bird doesn't get a shock when it lands on an overhea= d cable....

-- =

What=E2=80=99s black, white, and red all over and doesn=E2=80=99t fit th= rough a revolving door? A nun with a spear through her head.

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

Consider this. You're using a power tool and unbeknown to you the cord is damaged. As you operate the tool, you're holding the metal chassis. Your arm brushes the live wire on the damaged cord. 240 volts straight through you to the steel chassis to ground. A shock. But if you had no earthing on the appliance, no electric shock. Safer. Earthed appliances only protect against damage INSIDE the appliance, which virtually never happens. Usually damage occurs outside.

[trader_4]

You forgot to add "None" to that list.

[Cursitor Doom]

OK, now you really *are* sounding like a troll.