Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating

[Danny D.]

Good news, and odd news.

1. I let it cool down for 1/2 hour and then when I plugged the Supco RC0410

1/4-to-1/3 HP 120VAC "3n1 Start" Solid State Relay Overload Start Capacitor Combination unit in to the mains, the compressor started again!

1. I left the connections to the motor where they were, which seemed to match our assumption that the top was the COMMON, and the forward-facing bottom was the START and the rearward facing bottom was the RUN/MARK connection.
2. You'll notice I am not using the original power cord, so I have the rest of the frig (including condenser the fan) on its own power supply and the Supco RC0410 hard-start cap on its own power cord.
3. With the Ammeter on the 15Amp scale, when the compressor was running, the current on the black COMMON lead was about 3 amps.
4. To doublecheck, I checked the current on the input cord neutrals, which was also 3 Amps (not surprisingly):
5. When the compressor was starting, the current on the START lead jumped a bit (maybe double the 3 amps?) and then instantly settled down to zero amps (or very slightly above zero amps).
6. Then the compressor ran for about 10 or 20 minutes, getting very hot to the touch, where the output (thin) line was hot enough to burn my fingertips and even the input (thick) copper line was warm to the touch (and the refrigerator began to get noticeably cooler inside the doors).
7. After 10 or 15 or so minutes of running, the compressor began to hum instead of work causing 11 amps to flow through the COMMON lead, and then the relay clicked off (is that supposed to happen?).
8. Then the compressor turned back on, after about 10 minutes, and worked for a much shorter period of time, before turning off again (maybe fewer than five minutes).

Is it normal for a compressor to shut off after getting very hot after working for only about 10 minutes?

Is it OK to have the frig temporarily on two power cords? a. One for the fan and the rest of the frig b. One just for the compressor

[tom]

Did you remove all the dust from the condenser coil?

[Danny D.]

Here's the sound of the compressor running with the hard-start capacitor hooked up, sinking only about 3 amps through the COMMON terminal:

Here's the sound of the compressor turning off, after running for about 20 minutes or so, sinking about 11 amps through the COMMON terminal:

[tom]

The capacitor on that hard start kit may be too large and cause overheating. Why don't you go ahead and get the correct part specified for the unit you have?

For the last time, did you clean the dust off the condenser coil? That's important.

[Danny D.]

Given that the compressor is clearly working (at least for a short period of time), it seems that I have to go back and figure out what's bad.

Seems to make sense to replace the cap, even though 3 tests showed it to be good.

I was throwing away the frig as of this morning, so, there was no need to clean the condenser coil. I guess I'll clean it now - although do you really thing *that* is what is making the compressor cycle?

[Danny D.]

Up until now, I was just testing things.

So, instead of running the compressor from its own power cord and running the rest of the frig on its own power cord, I just now connected the compressor to the refrigerator main power cord.

Unfortunately, the compressor wouldn't start, so I'll let it cool down for another hour or so (it's VERY hot to the touch right now).

It would be interesting if the lack of starting was due to a lack of voltage on the power cord due to "something else" lowering the voltage, but the power cord tested roughly at 120V with the electrical tester.

Anyway, I started trying to clean the V-shaped condenser coils.

It's amazingly difficult (darn near impossible) to get the brush on the backside of that upside-down V-shaped set of coils.

[Stormin Mormon]

Please realize that Danny D claims to answer all questions, but usually ignores the important questions, even when asked several times. Danny D appears to pick and choose what he sees, and what he does. Even though he says I've helped diagnose a couple of problems for him over the years, he's lost my help on this refrig issue. I can see a couple things that may very well be big problems (and some simple things he can do). But, not until he goes back and answers the questions I've asked two or three times.

"for the last time" is a very wise thing to write. I hope you keep your own word, and stop feeding into this guy's analysis pyralysis.

If it had been my refrigerator, it would have been fixed and running, long time ago. Danny D doesn't appear to want it fixed, he's just doing break down, analysis, flow charts, web pictures, and videos.

Why spend any more time on a guy who's not serious? I'm to the point where I glance at and delete the posts with little attention to what he's playing with.

[Stormin Mormon]

When you go back and answer my question, I'll consider answer yours.

[Stormin Mormon]

If you'd done what I said, and played along, this could have been fixed last week. Hope you are enjoying your self.

[trader_4]

From your new testing, it would seem that you've confirmed what you already thought. Something is wrong with either the compressor or a restriction in the lines. More likely it's a bad compressor, so it's harder to start than it should be. The hard start kit gave it the additional kick it needed to get going, but ultimately it failed anyway because after some time it overloads and trips.

That is assuming the hardstart kit has the correct cap size for the motor.

Have you checked that the fan inside the fridge is working to move the cold air? If the fan is shot or blocked, it will ice up and the compressor will probably have an increased load on it that could cause trouble, resulting in it shutting down.

[Danny D.]

I don't see why you're so angry.

I'm trying to fix the frig while keeping my sister from saying "I told you so" and while my wife is constantly asking me when she can have her kitchen back.

I've never even *looked* at the back of a frig before (although I know basic refrigeration theory from high-school chemistry).

The 1/2-to-1/3HP hard-start cap isn't working. Half the time it starts the compressor, and half the time it does NOT start the compressor.

[Danny D.]

Thanks for that suggestion.

All

All I know, at this point, is that half the time the compressor starts and half the time it won't start, even with the hard-start cap installed.

It sure is!

That seems to be the case. This morning, after sitting overnight, it did NOT start with the hard start cap, and pulled 13.5 Amps.

Let's hope that the cap is just too small for the motor horsepower.

Unfortunately, the motor doesn't say the horsepower (which is odd for a motor but this is a motor/compressor combo):

Given it takes about 3 amps of current when running, googling, I find the formumla for horsepower (for single phase?) to be: (Volts x Amps x 1.732 x Eff x PF)/746

I assume an efficiency of, oh, I don't know, maybe 0.65?

I don't really understand power factor for a single-phase motor:

So I will just assume a power factor of 1.

120volts x 3amps x 1.732 x 0.65efficiency x 1 power factor)/746

I think that makes it about 1/2 HP motor, but, I also think it pulled 1.5 amps before, so that makes it really about 1/4 horsepower (I think).

So, I'll split the difference (not knowing any better yet), and call it between 1/3 and 1/4 horsepower, which means it is the correct sized capacitor.

Going back to the package, hmmm... it seems to be for that size:

The fan "inside" the frig? There's a fan inside the frig?

I opened the frig, and didn't hear or see any fan or feel air movement, but, the freezer seems to have a fan, which seems to be working. I don't know *where* that freezer fan is, but it's near the top (I think) behind the bulkhead somewhere, I think. It seems to be working from sound alone.

Is there another fan I'm missing?

Even so, the compressor won't start now. It started once out of about 10 tries, and it went off only because the wife wanted the wires cleaned up (snaking across the kitchen floor) and I accidentally unplugged it.

[Danny D.]

Hi Oren,

I guess that means you're actually looking at the pictures!

We know the cap is needed, based on that, so, it makes sense that the test jig without the cap wouldn't ever have worked.

This morning it wouldn't start, even though it was cool, so I started wondering if the power coming out of the refrigerator cord was being shunted in some other circuit, since the hard-start cap was hooked to the same power as the rest of the refrigerator:

To give the compressor its own dedicated power, I created a test cord with alligator clamps so that I could have a dedicated power for the compressor.

Note in this picture the open refrigerator leads:

But, nothing seems to have changed by giving the compressor its own dedicated wall outlet:

When it works (which right now is about 1 out of 10 times), it draws only a couple of amps, but when it fails (which is most of the time), it draws a whopping 13.5 amps!

I am trying to understand what makes the compressor start sometimes, and what makes it not start most of the time, all under essentially the same conditions.

To debug what's going on, I need to CHANGE some condition. But what condition can I change that will lead me to a diagnosis of what's really wrong?

[FrozenNorth]

Good Lord, replace the cap, they are not that expensive, otherwise buy a new fridge, that costs more money. If the light comes on inside when you open the door the power works, why look beyond that?

[trader_4]

I think the typical modern fridge relies on a fan to move cold air around within the fridge or from the freezer section to the fridge. If the fan doesn't work, you'd get super cold coils and IDK what effect that has on the compressor continuing to run or quitting. But if you have a warm fridge that has been sitting there for hours and it won't start, then clearly a bad fan or airflow isn't the problem.

This seems to be different than what you reported before. I thought before you said it started, ran for some number of minutes, started to get cold, then it quit. Starting, then quitting later could probably be from any number of compressor failures. For example, if a winding is partially bad, it could be harder to start, then once started, fail later when the winding gets hotter and maybe shorts out more. Or maybe something mechanical. Any case, it doesn't sound good.

[capitan]

...

Because he has the emotional maturity of a toddler in the terrible 2s. Just ask DerbyDad03, he had a cow on him for no reason, and I'm sure there are others in this group also.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Danny D. escribió:

1) you're obsessive-compulsive

2) you're extremely boring

3) you won't take a hint even when it's delivered with a sledgehammer

4) you need help from a mental health professional

5) you need a new fridge

6) if she hasn't already, your latest wife is about to divorce you

HTH. HAND.

[Stormin Mormon]

Yes, it's obvious that you don't see.

[Hugh Jass]

Just tell them if they had a penis, they could actually be useful and help.

[Danny D.]

You know me better'n my mother does!

:)