Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating

[Stormin Mormon]

Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed.

But, did you ever do any thing simple?

I leave you to your complications.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/9/2016 6:48 PM, Danny D. wrote: ...

There's something missing here & that is the cap. As I understand it, the cap is wired in series with the start winding in order to phase shift its current and get the motor started in the right direction. Without the cap, I don't think that the motor will start.

Bob

[Bob Engelhardt]

Also, now knowing what the output terminals of the relay are, one can diagnose it directly. Its circuit follows:

--||-- cap | | v v v v | |

120

[Danny D.]

You're right.

By gathering clues, I figured out which is the neutral on the compressor and which was the always powered pin, and which was the sometimes powered pin.

Then I created a test jig and hooked it up, without a capacitor. When I powered it up, the compressor still didn't run.

[Bob Engelhardt]

Can you modify your test jig to include the cap? Wire it in series in the start wire.

[Danny D.]

Thank you Bob for suggesting jumping the capacitor terminals to short them out, as that gave me some additional connectivity diagnostic information when I checked continuity:

The relay has only two wires going into it, and three holes coming out.

Disconnected from power, and with the capacitor terminals shorted: a. Red power input terminal went directly to the relay top output pin b. White neutral input terminal went directly to *both* lower output pins

If I remove the short between the capacitor pins, it changes to: a. Red power input still went directly to the relay top output pin b. White neutral input still went directly to the rearward lower output pin c. White neutral input no longer innervates the forward lower output pin

Unfortunately, it appears that the relay & cap are working. Do you interpret this the same as I do?

[Danny D.]

I will make any jumper cable we need to debug this darn thing.

Since it appears (to me anyway) that both the cap and the relay are working, that leaves mainly the compressor to test (which is critical).

If my prior tests of the relay were accurate, they seem to indicate a working relay, since there is 120VAC across the two lower terminals to the upper power terminal.

I wish the motor had a marking for the Start terminal versus the Mark/Run terminal and common, but there is nothing marked I can decipher. A. POWER TERMINAL B. RUN TERMINAL (aka MARK terminal) C. START TERMINAL

So these are just my guesses for the three terminals:

Given that, is this your suggestion for wiring the cap in series:

1. From the power cord (red) hot wire to the top POWER terminal of the compressor.
2. From the power cord (white) neutral wire split into two wires:

2a. From the power cord (white) neutral to the MARK/RUN rearward lower pin on the compressor. 2b. From the power cord (white) neutral to the cap in series and from the cap to the START forward lower pin on the compressor.

Is that what you are suggesting I test?

[trader_4]

There are motors where the cap is only used to start the motor and motors where the cap is required to run the motor as you describe. Which one that compressor is, IDK, but I agree with your concern.

[trader_4]

I don't see why you need any test jig. You say that you've had the cap tested and it's good and the relay is working. If you have

120V showing up at the two winding leads going into the compressor and it doesn't start, then the compressor is screwed. If it starts, but shuts down after running for a brief time, then I guess it could be something blocking the flow in a line. In either case it's likely it's done anyway, depending on the cost of a new fridge.

[Bob Engelhardt]

Yes, I think that's right.

Except that it's standard to switch the "hot" line, not the neutral. Are you sure that the white input wires are neutral? White is the usual color for neutral, but inside an appliance they could do otherwise.

[Bob Engelhardt]

I agree

Yes. And as the parts guy advised, as soon as the motor starts, disconnect the START pin.

[Bob Engelhardt]

...

WE "got's to know": did you try it & what happened?

[Danny D.]

I'm sorry it took me so long but I had family things to do on Sunday. I built the test jig and tested the compressor.

I think it's bad news. I'm uploading the pictures now.

BTW, I got zapped by the 12uF capacitor because I forgot it held a whopping charge after being unplugged.

Can a 12uF cap kill me?

Is it safe (for the cap) to short the terminals to discharge it? (It's a pretty good sized pop - certainly audible - and about 2 or 3 mm in white-hot spark size.)

[Danny D.]

I apologize for missing yesterday. I had a family engagement. All the salmon is gone by now, so I have more time anyway. :)

What do you make of these results?

Given:

1. Relay continuity

1. Relay power:

2. I guess that these are the motor terminals:

1. Here is the suggested test jig with the cap in series with the terminal that I "think" is the START terminal:

2. I accidentally hooked it up backward the first time, with the HOT wire splitting into two, one of which went through the capacitor and then to what I think is the compressor START terminal - and the other hot went to what I think is the compressor RUN terminal.

1. Then I labeled the wires, and hooked it up the opposite way - with the HOT wire going only to what I think is the compressor topward COMMON terminal. One neutral wire went to the capacitor and then to what I think is the compressor bottom-forward-facing START terminal and the other neutral went to what I think is the compressor bottom-rearward facing RUN terminal.

In both tests, the motor just hummed but did not appear to start. When I pulled what I think is the start wire neutral off, the hum didn't change.

What do you make of this? What are my options? (PS: Money is tight).

[Danny D.]

The markings on this cap are:

1. 12uF
2. 180VAC (it was charged to 120VAC)
3. 10,000AFC (I presume this is cycles?)
4. 50/60Hz

Can that 120VAC 12uF zap kill me? Is it safe (to the cap) to short the terminals?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:22:01 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote: Here is a summary, from top to bottom of where it's at.

SUMMARY: I don't know if I tested it correctly, nor if I identified the circuit correctly, but if I both identified and tested the circuit correctly, then the compressor motor is bad.

However, maybe I made a mistake?

DETAILS:

1. Bought in 2010, the wife's Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just stopped working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then clicking" noise started happening.

1. Here is the parts diagram (I annotated in red with the names of the parts):

2. Condenser fan is blowing full time (dunno if it always did that).

1. Condenser coils are at room temperature and are dusty:

2. Compressor tries to start every few minutes, and hums for about 15 seconds and then the overload relay clicks off.

1. Top of compressor is hot to the touch so I let it cool down overnight but no change in operation:

2. Here is a video of the humming noise kick on every five minutes for about 10 or 20 seconds and then a click when it shuts off:

Here is another video of the humming noise and click off the next day when the compressor was cold:

1. I removed the 12uF capacitor which looked good and had it tested at an appliance parts counter and it tested good.

1. I removed the overload and start relay (combination kit):

2. I ran a few continuity tests, which seemed to return what may be "normal" results:

1. Unpowered, I shorted the two capacitor terminals in the relay so that I could test continuity:

2. The relay has only two wires going into it, and three holes coming out.

1. Disconnected from power, and with the capacitor terminals shorted: a. Red power input terminal went directly to the relay top output pin b. White neutral input terminal went directly to *both* lower output pins

2. If I remove the short between the capacitor pins, it changes to: a. Red power input still went directly to the relay top output pin b. White neutral input still went directly to the rearward lower output pin c. White neutral input no longer innervates the forward lower output pin

======================

1. In summary, this is the relay continuity (Note that this is not the type of relay that you can shake to hear rattling inside.)

1. Powered, the relay has two neutrals and one hot (I would have thought it should be the other way around, but I tested the neutrals to the chassis of the frig):

2. Give those two results above, I am *guessing* that these are the motor terminals (top seems to be COMMON (hot), Forward-bottom seems to be START (neutral), and rearward bottom seems to be RUN (neutral): (Again, I would have thought it would be a common neutral and not a common hot but it doesn't seem to be wired that way.)

1. Here is a slightly better test jig with the 12uF/180VAC start capacitor in series with the terminal that I "think" is the START terminal:

2. I accidentally hooked it up backward the first time, with the HOT wire splitting into two, one of which went through the capacitor and then to what I think is the compressor START terminal - and the other hot went to what I think is the compressor RUN terminal.

1. Then I labeled the wires, and hooked it up the opposite way - with the HOT wire going only to what I think is the compressor topward COMMON terminal. One neutral wire went to the capacitor and then to what I think is the compressor bottom-forward-facing START terminal and the other neutral went to what I think is the compressor bottom-rearward facing RUN terminal.

In both tests, the motor just hummed but did not appear to start. When I pulled what I think is the start wire neutral off, the hum didn't change.

What do you make of these results?

[trader_4]

IDK, but as I posted previously, you verified the cap is good, if you have 120 at both windings and it won't start, you're screwed.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/11/2016 6:06 PM, Danny D. wrote: ...

Yep, that's right.

Actually, with AC, it's all the same. Functionally, that is - there is a safety difference.

You've already determined that there is continuity on the start winding, so no difference when pulling it does not indicate an open winding.

The no-difference is due to the cap-in-series which limits the start current to about 1/2 amp (its impedance is 220 ohms), while the run current is likely 6, 8, or more amps. I.e., the start current is too small to notice when it's removed.

I can't think of anything else to try. It seems pretty conclusive that the compressor is shot. Oh ... somebody said that the "Freon" line could be plugged. That could be, but diagnosing and fixing that would be just as expensive.

I suppose, for the hell of it, you could try reversing the start & run leads. Can't hurt & maybe there was a brain fart that got their identities reversed.

Bob

[Bob Engelhardt]

Nicely done.

[tom]

Oh, oh, oh... Set up a video and put this on youtube. It might be a winner.