Pentair to sell tool division: Delta, Porter-Cable

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says...

HOW?
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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wdmcc says...

Larry Blanchard

Buy used. :-)
UA100
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Maybe the best thing for government to do is stay out of business all together. Politicians are already screaming for a raise of minimum wage to over $7.00/hr. For what christsakes!? Because some lame idiot was too busy smoking dope and beating the other kids for lunch money to stay in school to be educated!? So now he has to live of min. wage or welfare? Then taxes are raised which drives up the costs of businesses or wages are forced to be increased for the guy who sweeps the floor, takes out the trash, etc... and the overhead for businesses go up. Government (legislative and judicial) always screws things up because they are all a bunch of lawyers instead of business men. Bill Gates produces a better more users friendly product and everyone sues him because he's got a "monopoly". No they sue him because he's got money and it is politically correct to demonize him. A guy invents a better way to copy papers. Nobody likes his idea and tells him to hit the road (i.e. Eastman Kodak). So what does he do? He hocks everything he has to start a garage business to produce machines that use the process of xerography ( 99.999% of all copiers, faxes, laser printers today use this process) and XEROX is born and becomes big and successful. So then all those companies that rejected him end up filing a law suit against XEROX and win to get a release on his patent and boom the Japanese kills us on the world market with copier and printer technology. Sue the Tobacco companies because people are too stupid to read the labels and too stupid to be responsible for their own actions. Demonize them because they are successful, and get a court order to steal their money. Another successful business on its way down. No if any politician really wants to support the economy, then get government the hell out and let businessman do their jobs. Create successful companies that produce our jobs. So we can produce products that are both good quality at a good price.

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!?!

There are a lot of whoppers floating around this discussion, but this one is priceless.

Its PC to defend him actually.
The guy keeps breaking laws and then getting slapped on the wrist. The laws are there to provide a framework. They are required for capitalism. Among the many suits he has lost include ones for merely taking what doesn't belong to him.
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Don't forget the USA 14" Bandsaw. I was thinking of eventually selling my Jet and buying that one, since they take the same blades and my Jet has broken down and doesn't seem as well built.
Joe

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I just read about this too. Check out these links to see the full story...
http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4357008.html
and...
http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20040204-000662-0923
I am curious to see what develops from here.
Dusty
"A man without a wife is like a fish without a bicycle." unknown
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It seems to me that we in the US are getting very close to being a colony of Asia. Or are we already?
RB
Brian Elfert wrote:

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I'm positive the value of everything manufactured in the USA far, far exceeds the value of everything manufactured in Asia that is imported.
It just seems like everything is being made in Asia because so many household goods are made there. You and I don't see the made in the USA labels on lots of things because they are buried inside other things we buy.
There isn't a made in the USA label on a Boeing jet, yet they are made right here in the USA.
Brian Elfert
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Brian Elfert wrote:

I thought they had large sections of fuselage sub contracted out to China?
-Bruce

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Assembled in America. Something better than 50% of the 777 and probably more like 65% of the 7E7 are/will be built by foreign contractors (Japan and Europe being the largest).
scott
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Nope, Japan. China is not quite there in terms of high-end, consistently reliable manufacturing.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

This is something which really surprises me about this country. Which is lack of really high end US made products. I think is some kind of deficiency in a culture. My wife works in Berkeley Lab and most, if not all, precise equipment they use made abroad. Most from Germany, France and Japan. These are not low wage places. Why American companies do not make any equipment which would compete in this market? This is not only about precise machinery. Simple erasers, just block of latex, yet all engineering students use German erasers (not Chinese), while american made are really a piece of crap. Why good erasers can't be made here in US? My only guess is a lack of culture of the management. There is of course pressure to increase margins and stock price but it does exist in Europe and Japan as well. So, I am not surprised that some major parts of Boeing jet made in Japan.
I am not an American, though I live here in US. And I wish this country to succeed, not in launching men to the Mars (though it would be good) or waging wars left and right, but in making life of its people better. But I don't hold my breath.
Dmitri
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If China and Japan stop buying our debt, we will be worst off than what you describe. Unfortunately right now they need us as bad as we need them but the music will eventually stop. The thing we should pray for is to have the China bubble to burst like our dot.com one did a few years ago. Don't blame either country, the real villains are corporate America and the buffoons that run it.

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I'm wondering, Nahmie sponsored by Jet?
UA100
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bingo.
Pentair made the news in Milwaukee today by buying a business owned by our local utility, where my wife works. Let's see--how many degrees of separation is that between me and my Unisaw?
Bob
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Well, simply because Pentair wishes to sell the tools unit does not mean all that much from my point of view. This business has been bought and sold several times, moved from Milwalkee to Tennessee, outsourced, overseas-ed, pinched for profits and likely reconfigured in as many ways as some newly minted MBAs who don't know a dado from a tenon could dream up. Let's face it, the Pentair finance guys have made a decision that the earinings curve on homeowner/hobbyist/professional tool sales volume has peaked, right or wrong, so they are sellers. I mean, after all, mass market is where the sales volume is. Jet is also on the verge of eating their lunch, Dewalt and Jet have been a bit more innovative in product development, and Jet has shown committment to the sector with their Powermatic acquisition. We all can complain from time to time, but Jet is really giving Delta a run for their money in the stationery tool market, I own both brands and frankly find it hard to distinguish -again, overall- from quality. Yes, I like my Delta 14" band saw a bit more than the Jet, but the two cabinet saws are indistinguishable in quality - I bought the Unisaw only because the dealer matched the price to the Jet for a "Great White" leftover. The fact is Pentair has a $1 Billion revenue stream (which ain't chicken liver) from tools generating <10% margins - who's to say that a buyer, at a price based upon an appropriate earnings multiple, could not tweak the business, make it stronger, more responsive to its customers, improve the margins and make it better in the long run for both the owners and the customers? I for one would rather have someone focused on tools as their main business, rather than water treatment. It's like when AMF bought Harley Davidson, they ran it into the ground, bunch of bean counters, and the product suffered - those bikes were garbage. Get someone really committed to the product and customer and folks will pay a bit more for service and quality.
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Mutt wrote:

Interesting that you bring this up as I was pondering a similar line last night during some of my "I don't have to be thinking of useful stuff right now" down time. What's different, at least for me is, this is one chapter of the Great Delta Legacy that I'll/we'll be able to watch first hand.

By the way, the finance guys arrived at Delta shortly after the sale of the company in 1939. Now it's rather interesting that during that time and well up into the next couple of decades the engineers and sales force at Delta managed to keep them at bay (some what). By the mid-70's they (engineers at least) had been pretty well beaten down and the new world order was in place. This wasn't the beginning of the end as that had really begun rather benignly years before but it certainly accelerated Delta's demise.

Oh hell yes. Delta is Jet's stiffest competition though stiff in this case may not be the right word. The game was Delta's to lose and they lost it. Plain and simple, game over man.

DeWalt is one thing but Jet has pretty much built their line on the back of the already available Delta design. I suppose you could make a case-by-case argument but let's face it, they only backwards engineered the Delta line.

I'm thinking the jury is still out on Powermatic and that only time will tell.
some snippage...

My AMF/HD argument has always centered on the fact that without AMF guys like Teerlink and Bluestein (sp?) would never have had a company left to rescue. The same might be said for Penthair though I don't think Penthair is to blame as much as Delta's internal management. It's a blurred line I know but from what I have seen an owner doesn't always hold the cards and it usually comes down to the people doing the actual work.

Oh hell yes. Now, may I?
I'm thinking Jet is turning their pockets inside out right now and looking at all available avenues to buy the Penthair Machinery ConGlomCo. It would make them instant players in the markets they don't already have a foot in (Porter-Cable/DeVilbis/et al). It allows them to make Delta dead should they decide that to be a good thing. After all, there really isn't a need to have two of everything. Least of which it buys up Delta's distribution and customer base though they already seem to be everywhere that Delta is.
This would be no different than Delta and Rockwell buying up Walker-Turner, Crescent, Red Star and all the other great woodworking machinery makers that have fallen by the wayside but had/have made Delta what it was once upon a time.
A'yup, we have a front row center seat here for the next chapter of the Great Delta Legacy.
UA100, off to make popcorn and scrunching his ass down in the big comfy chair...
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I think it's worth pointing out that, unlike Delta, Jet was no a tool manufacturer. If I'm not mistaken, Jet didn't have any manufacturing facilities until their acquisition of Powermatic. For that matter, did Jet aquire Powermatic, or was it their parent corporation (whose not-so-memorable name I forget)?

Hmmm..... I'm not so sure. Would it really be in their best financial interest? Sure, I can see a definite benefit. But would that benefit be worth the cost? Would it be like Ford buying Chrysler or Daimler-Benz (sp?) buying Chrysler?

Well, I think it would be a little different. Again, Jet is an importer/marketer of machinery, not a manufacturer. Do they want to go that direction? Sometimes corporations do best sticking to what they do best, so to speak.

I think I'll wait for it to come out on video.
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
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I wonder about Biesemeyer. I was looking at their website to try and ed-y-kate muhself and noticed they were owned by Delta.
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