Pentair to sell tool division: Delta, Porter-Cable

But that would mean they "discovered" America and we'd lose Columbus Day as a holiday. In the third grade Mrs. Price taught me that Chris found us so it MUST be right. Ed

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski
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This is precisely the historical pattern. My father heard Polish in school until he was 9 years old; the city of Milwaukee (and many others) had bilingual schools, German and English; the Union army in Missouri during the Civil War was 60% German--the list goes on and on. The desire to retain cultural traditions is strongest in the first generation of immigrants, but by the second and especially the third they have become almost completely assimilated within the new culture.As for sending money home, historians now agree that somewhere around 20 percent of immigrants who came over during the 1880-1910 wave remigrated, that is, returned to the home country. And many immigrants sent money home, often to allow friends and family to migrate. Last, immigrants working at low-paying jobs is precisely the historical pattern, in part because they are the jobs that are least attractive to the natives. For one example, check the use of Chinese labor in building the transcontinental railroad in 1869-72

Yes, I know--you'll say "they are loafers, do shoddy work, and don't pay their way." This is only partly true, and only of individuals. We all know more than a few Americans who fit that image. Since the 1960s the old pattern of immigrants paying more more in taxes than they received in state benefits has been broken. However, the pattern of future generations assimilating is still the norm. (Obww)

The point? Most of what you have posted is the stereotypical reaction to immigration, with the usual false generalizations.

Bob Schmall

Reply to
Bob Schmall

bingo.

Pentair made the news in Milwaukee today by buying a business owned by our local utility, where my wife works. Let's see--how many degrees of separation is that between me and my Unisaw?

Bob

Reply to
Bob Schmall

Agreed, but it would be nice if they would stop making the problem worse.

Frank

Reply to
Frank Ketchum

Nah. Never happen.

Major League Baseball mandates a smaller team roster than what the NFL allows.

*guffaw*

Reply to
Robert Bonomi

!?!

There are a lot of whoppers floating around this discussion, but this one is priceless.

Its PC to defend him actually.

The guy keeps breaking laws and then getting slapped on the wrist. The laws are there to provide a framework. They are required for capitalism. Among the many suits he has lost include ones for merely taking what doesn't belong to him.

Reply to
p_j

Well, simply because Pentair wishes to sell the tools unit does not mean all that much from my point of view. This business has been bought and sold several times, moved from Milwalkee to Tennessee, outsourced, overseas-ed, pinched for profits and likely reconfigured in as many ways as some newly minted MBAs who don't know a dado from a tenon could dream up. Let's face it, the Pentair finance guys have made a decision that the earinings curve on homeowner/hobbyist/professional tool sales volume has peaked, right or wrong, so they are sellers. I mean, after all, mass market is where the sales volume is. Jet is also on the verge of eating their lunch, Dewalt and Jet have been a bit more innovative in product development, and Jet has shown committment to the sector with their Powermatic acquisition. We all can complain from time to time, but Jet is really giving Delta a run for their money in the stationery tool market, I own both brands and frankly find it hard to distinguish -again, overall- from quality. Yes, I like my Delta 14" band saw a bit more than the Jet, but the two cabinet saws are indistinguishable in quality - I bought the Unisaw only because the dealer matched the price to the Jet for a "Great White" leftover. The fact is Pentair has a $1 Billion revenue stream (which ain't chicken liver) from tools generating

Reply to
Mutt

You know, I hear this periodically as an argument in this culture war. Whether any or all other arguments against imports are valid or not I don't know, but I find this one rather silly.

What kind of a war can you imagine that would have all the manufacturering countries against us and be so protracted in actual battle that we use up all of our tanks, airplanes and guns, yet we don't call an end to it by using the nukes?

I find it difficult to imagine an all-out, protracted, conventional battlefield war like WWII occuring. The type of serious attacks and battles that would require would rapidly escalate to where one side or the other would threaten nukes and some negotiated stand-off would happen (or the nukes would actually be used).

I think you are planning the last war - which often gets nations in trouble.

Dave Hall

Reply to
David Hall

A lot of the immigrants coming into the USA now are doing so illegally.

The immigrants in the 1800s came here legally at least.

Brian Elfert

Reply to
Brian Elfert

Can you say, "Do you want fries with that ?"

Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop

SNIP Do we really want to be a country that is incapable of manufacturing anything?

Reply to
Ron Magen

Ouch! So it's no problem 'cause we could always nuke 'em? Great solution!

Could be, but I hope the next one is more like that than like the nuclear you envision. And don't forget that a country, or group of countries, can exert a lot of pressure without war. Did we threaten to nuke the Arabs over the oil embargo?

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

True--which is one reason I'm opposed to Mr. Bush's proposal to make them citizens. Another is that it's a cheap election-year ploy that will play in the Latino community but never get passed. The illegal immigrants should meet the same standards as any who have gone before them. I was responding to the overt racism in the posting.

Bob

Reply to
Bob Schmall

Wes, I agree with your facts about illegals having babies and costing us money. There are, however, jobs that are low paying and a lot of people just won't do them today. I can assure you also, that I am not the person with all the answers to correct this.

I manage a small company with 20 employees. We need 35 employees. What we need are people to do a low skilled job with a correspondingly low pay. It is above minimum wage, it offers holidays, vacation, health insurance, 401k. Qualifications are to be able to look at parts and know a good one from a bad one (we'll show you how), be able to write the date and shift, and show up pretty much every day. We are located in a small town (pop. 12,000) in New England, surrounded by other small towns.

I can't find people. We must use a temp labor service to bring people from out of the area. They are legal immigrants or aliens (the agency says so), some speak English, but that is not required. They work for less than $9 an hour. The locals are either not interested in these jobs, or they are not qualified. I don't hire high school dropouts because most are bozos that don't show up. Or just don't give a damn about what they are doing. (a whole other topics of discussion)

Can we pay more? Subject to debate I guess, but more money is not getting us any better applicants. We are in a very competitive business and can't raise prices to pay for more labor. We can't move to another cheaper area because the freight cost of the product will far exceed any savings. Our business region is limited to about 250 miles.

Many of the applicants I get want to drive a fork lift truck and get paid $15/hr. Others come from the closed down GM plant that paid $20+ per hour.

Without the recent immigrants, we could not run our business. Some of these people do not speak English but communicate very well. They are not stupid, they work and give an honest days work. We treat them the same as our full time employees. Same breaks, same free coffee, they are invited to our summer picnic, etc. Our intention is to have them as workers at a fair wage, not to exploit them. The temp agency helps them with transportation. We have been able to hire a couple as full time employees, some are not interested.

Ed

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Gee, you can't find people who want to work for near poverty level wages? You don't say what you pay, but you think $15/hour is too high, so your wages can't be very much.

I know everyone can't work for $20 to $30 an hour, but around $10 an hour is very much on the low end for a full time job. Who needs a 401k when they can't afford to put anything into it?

Brian Elfert

Reply to
Brian Elfert

American natives are immigrants from Asia. Humans appear to have first appeared in Africa where they evolved from something else. All living organisms evolved from a primordal stew. The primordal stew may have started from comets crashing into Earth.

How far back do we want to trace to determine ancestry?

Reply to
Everett M. Greene

There's no doubt that capitalism and international trade are great economic levellers. However, the level may well be quite low if nobody can afford to buy the products that are being produced (cheaply).

Reply to
Everett M. Greene

Some of it is that, and that's fine. But that's only the part of the story they want to tell you. I know a number of carpenters around here that are having a very hard time even considering the amount of building they are doing (considerable). Reason for that is that contractors are hiring Mexicans. If they are illegal, that's better as far as they are concerned since they don't dare complain about low pay, lack of benifits and no overtime pay. Of course, workmanship is going to crap along with that but who cares. The contractors are making money.

Reply to
CW

and they were willing to learn the language. skeez

Reply to
skeezics

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m18.aol.com:

BZZZZZ. Wrong.

The true problem isn't with corporate america it is with Americans. Corporate America does what it does to maximize profits. Why? Because the stockholders demand it. Who are these evil stockholders that force our corporations to outsource high paying jobs to low wage countries? You YOU and ME. We all have 401Ks now. We are all in the "market" one way or the other.

Now why is there illegal immagration? The same answer as above. It is because of you and me. Why? Because when we go grocery shopping we shop for the lowest price goods. If farmers could pay $10.00 an hour for orange pickers then oranges would cost $10.00 a pound at the grocery store instead of $0.99. You want to end the demand for cheap labor then get off your but and stop demanding low cost goods.

I made a workbench for a friends grandson. It was a fun project and I did it for the fun of it. When I got done I had 20 hours of labor in it and $50.00 in materials. She gave me $125.00 for it. Why? Because she could go out and buy a store bought one simular that was made in China for about the same amount. So I made 75/20 or $3.75 an hour. To have made a "living wage" off of it I would have had to charge $250 - $300 of of it. There is no way that a "toy" her grandson is going to beat on with a hammer is worth that.

Do don't blame the illegal imagrants, or corporate America, blame yourself - all of you/us are the problem.

The next time you shop a sale, or purchase a product based on price then just remember you are the cause.

By the way - all of the "you"s in this are the global you, not charliediy.

Reply to
Joe Willmann

If the price of oranges would go up 1000% if the farmer paid $10/hr, they must be paying the pickers about $.01/hour. The percentage of the retail price of an orange that goes to farm labor is probably less 3%.

Brian Elfert

Reply to
Brian Elfert

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