Sonny boy wanted to shoot people.
I don't see any Lithium batteries on offer.
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I have used them, but never owned one. I have owned crappy Bosch, whuich many say are the equiv. I learnt that these tools are way overpriced a long time ago after being bitten a few times.
I find the best price/performance is Ryobi and Kress (Wickes)
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You definitely require my wisdom.
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Oh dear - not only have I started yet another 'which drill?' thread; I've kicked off another IMM vs .andy duel.... :-)
I'd definitely really like a Makita; certainly money no object I'd certainly go for one. Appreciate all the 'economy in the long run' arguments, but I can't justify the outlay. One reason is risk of loss - I often use my stuff away from home, carry it around in the car etc and wouldn't be covered by insurance against theft.
I agree the 6228 is within my budget; however my drill will need to deal with some masonry work, so I want hammer action which is why I'd discounted it - I'd be looking at the Makita 8433, at 235 GBP or thereabouts?
I've never used either a Makita or Erbauer personally: Andy, do you really reckon the Makita 6228 will give "better results" than a hammer action 18V Erbauer? (ie nothing to do with reliability or spares availability)?
David
Haven't tried them personally yet but seen Cobalt multipurpose drills at shows and on telly selly that claim to do masonry without hammer. Since hammer is so puny on cordless perhaps that is a better way. If so lower spec drills non-hammer drills may be worth considering. Interested in any feedback about the Cobalt drills.
Jim A
This comes down *again* to the type/frequency of use and your available budget. Professional, or DIYer with more money then ability. Real cheep battery operated tools such as the Argos and B&Q house brands are a complete and utter waste of money, but *some* of the in-between brands are fine IMHO for diy use.
LOL
-- Mark§
I can understand that......
There is also an impact on accuracy, ease of use and productivity. If you don't cost your time then this may not matter.
If you do, then it matters a lot.
Or somebody able and wishing to do a better job more quickly than is possible with junk tools.
Again, if one costs in the *complete* situation and accounts for the cost of time, it makes good economic sense to buy quality products that are accurate, easy to use and do not fatigue the uset.
That depends again on how/if you cost your time and the quality and speed of the intended work. I don't automatically equate "DIY" with cheap, poor quality, built down to a price point, and promoted by the marketing pundits as "DIY grade" to an audience that will accept "good enough". I don't think that "good enough" often is good enough. A poorly made product will still be poor whether used for ten minutes or all day.
Probably if you are using one of the catalogue unknown products that will sink without trace next week, you would be. There is an enormous difference between these and a proper product with decent mechanics, controller and batteries.
The issue is that I don't make buying decisions based on a single issue of whether the Erbauer is going to drill a hole in masonry at a certain speed on day 1 in comparison with a Makita on the same day.
I have a Makita 14.4v and a larger 18v, but neither are hammer action. The 14.4 will comfortably do up to mid range masonry holes - e.g. 8mm hole for a wall fixing, with no hammer action. The 18v will do somewhat more. I don't have or use a hammer action on either of them because for masonry work above that level I occasionally use a corded drill or more typically an SDS. Either will do a far better job than a cordless hammer drill, even with decent batteries and mechanics like Makita produce.
Therefore, I would choose a good quality, well balanced and well controlled 14.4v drill for small to medium hole drilling, or even large in some materials, and screwdriving. Then to use something with more brute force and power than can be achieved out of a cordless tool by buying a reasonable corded SDS drill. Overall, I think that this is a much better spread of matching quality and control where needed ususally more frequently.
I also tend to look much bigger picture, by not limiting myself to deciding based on what it did on day 1 in the shop and the price. To me, cost of time is by far the highest cost, therefore I want to have good quality tools that do a well controlled and precision job and can be fixed if needed and relied upon for years. For me, this completely rules out the catalogue and DIY store products that are sold on the numbers game with seemingly attractive warranties but which in reality are thrown out and replaced. I think that this is a valueless concept because it simply encourages poorer and poorer items to flood the market. I would much rather pay decent money for a good quality tool that I can use well all day or probably get the job done more quickly. I don't want to waste half a day waiting in a queue at the DIY shop to get an exchange on an unknown product.
To me, spares availability, ease of use and build quality are much larger issues than capital cost.
On the other hand, if purchase price is the biggest issue and cost of personal time less important, then the equation may be different.
This is certainly a situation where one size doesn't fit all.
The Ryobi angle drill is going for £99, but for £114, they throw in a 14.4v drill/driver and case. That one good deal for two decent tools. If you need/want these tools then this is one good deal.
An extra £80 gets you a Ryobi SDS from Screwfix and that is all you will ever need. Well pay circa £15 for a cheapy 700w mains drill from Argis and sheds to compleet the kit.
So, for just over £200 you have the lot and apart from the cheapy mains drill decent quality tools.
Andy, with respect, you are missing the plot completely.
First of all, cheaper power tools are fine for many applications. Horses for courses.
I've always wanted a biscuit joiner, but for many years they have been completely outside of my price range as a serious DIYer. Now they arent, I can justify spending =A340 on one. Wouldn't last the week out in a joinery shop, but it will give me years of service.
Secondly, there is a huge difference between 'cheaply made' and 'made cheaply'.
For years the big boys in power tools have made huge margins and with huge margins come huge expenses. Sales meetings in Spain, top of the range company cars, hospitality etc. Now the big boys operate in the real world and watch costs like a hawk.
Manufacturing techniques have also changed, JIT, L.E.A.N. etc. Structural plastics have arrived.
I work for a multi national equipment manufacturer. In the last 5 years we have turned to L.E.A.N. manufacturing, outsourcing non critical components to eastern Europe, use of advanced moulding techniques etc. Our costs & prices have dropped by 30% - quality has improved overall.
Dave
First of all, cheaper power tools are fine for many applications. Horses for courses.
I've always wanted a biscuit joiner, but for many years they have been completely outside of my price range as a serious DIYer. Now they arent, I can justify spending £40 on one. Wouldn't last the week out in a joinery shop, but it will give me years of service.
Secondly, there is a huge difference between 'cheaply made' and 'made cheaply'.
For years the big boys in power tools have made huge margins and with huge margins come huge expenses. Sales meetings in Spain, top of the range company cars, hospitality etc. Now the big boys operate in the real world and watch costs like a hawk.
Manufacturing techniques have also changed, JIT, L.E.A.N. etc. Structural plastics have arrived.
I work for a multi national equipment manufacturer. In the last 5 years we have turned to L.E.A.N. manufacturing, outsourcing non critical components to eastern Europe, use of advanced moulding techniques etc. Our costs & prices have dropped by 30% - quality has improved overall.
Dave
In article , Doctor Evil writes
John, I don't think this is true, can you direct me to a "pro" or a site where this is happening? I promise not to mention your name but I'm interested in establishing the facts. I keep but my eye out for this sort of thing and admittedly spend all my working life on large sites where it certainly isn't true but I have a small house development going on next door where I notice they are also only using DeWalt and Makita, are you only talking about plumbers?
Don't know if you are still undecided but this may help
"Magician"
Poor boy has never been the same since the week at the Everest double glazing sales conference. ;-(
Bertie, you must look harder.
I know a lot of stuff needs removing.
The wood workers use Makita and DeWalt virtually to man, but the others tend to use what is available. I've seen a bit of Wickes (Kress about) and I recall a comms crew who all had Parkside (cheap stuff from Lidle)
Seeing as you all think I am Dr Evil I replied as him in the previous post. Your name is Bertie isn't it?
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:21:52 -0000, "top gear" strung together this:
Er, don't think so. Try looking into the settings a bit more, or use a proper newsreader.
I you have figured this lot out. There are about 6 or so here who are a sandwich short of picnic, they are easy to spot.
Tools from Lidle, now there is s novelty. I can see all the overall clad men at the checks with their Lidle drills.
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Your loss, there have been some amazing bargains there over the past few years.
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