Here's the thing. I'm obviously not an engineer nor a tech. I'm just a guy.
I had never looked at the back of a frig in my life before. I ask you guys for help because the frig is a riddle to me. I don't need more riddles though.
I tried cleaning the condenser coils with a flexible brush, but that's basically impossible (to get to the other half).
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So I cleaned the coils by blowing with an airgun at 100psi or so:
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That left a trail of dust devils in the kitchen:
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And then I hooked the hard-start capacitor to refrigerator power:
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Since that didn't help, I tried hooking the hard-start cap to its own separate power:
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I can plug and unplug at will (letting it rest a half hour between):
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It only starts sometimes.
The rest of the time it's just pulling 13.5 Amps and not starting:
The resistance of the windings checks out as expected, so, electrically I don't see any issue based on resistance testing anyway; however, current when running is 3amps, and I had expected, from youtube videos, about half that.
As for the different stories, yesterday, it started with the hard-start cap. I then unplugged to show the wife, and it wouldn't start a second time. But then I let it rest for an hour and it started right up. I thought I had the problem licked.
The compressor ran for a while and was definitely getting cold inside. The output tube was very hot (almost burned me) and the input tube was warm.
But then it started kicking off, and wouldn't start. So I unplugged it and let it sit overnight.
This morning, it started right up when I plugged it in. But I accidentally disconnected it after just a couple of minutes.
Basically it won't start since. I don't know what else to check or do.
I guess I could get a *bigger* hard-start cap. Or, maybe the hard-start cap is busted.
When you run into a problem, you can either do things differently, or force harder, using the technique which has failed up to that point.
I offered you (repeatedly) a chance to do differently, and you ignored me repeatedly. This post is an example of trying to force your failing techniques even harder, and trying to force me to participate with your failings. I'll have you know, that I viewed NONE of the links, and barely read your text.
By way of references, I've been working on domstic refrigerators for over 10 years. I'm fairly sure that if you'd done what I said, it would have been fixed several days ago. I'm also fairly sure I know why your compressor keeps going off.
I'm not sure why the repeatedly cryptic riddles, but I don't understand them. I did *every* single thing that people, including you suggested.
I answered *every* single question that people, including you, asked.
The compressor only went on twice out of a few dozen tries, after the hard-start cap.
Either the hard-start cap 'went bad', or something else is wrong.
I left no stone unturned that was suggested and no question unanswered that was asked. Not one.
So you can remain cryptic with riddles or you can ask a simple question or suggest a test - but the cryptic riddles you're repeating are not useful in and of themselves, except to amuse you but they don't amuse me.
I do realize I'm asking you for help, but I'm asking you to stop with the riddles becuase I don't understand the puzzles you are purposefully proposing.
If you *really* wanted me to answer a question, you'd simply ask it instead of providing riddle (after riddle after riddle).
I mean, how hard can your question be? I answered *EVERYTHING* asked of me. I tried *EVERYTHING* suggested.
I can't be any more blunt (and I don't do riddles).
Stormin just likes being a jerk sometimes. Normally I wouldn't point it out, but since he attacked me out of the blue, in another thread the other day for no reason, what the hell, might as well return the favor.
Agree. Sounds reasonable to me. And I'm taking bets. Stormin said that if you listened to him a week ago, you'd have fixed it by now. I'm betting that whatever he has to say ain't gonna fix it, he probably knows that, and that's why he's playing games.
As you know, I don't read every thread here. I just read the threads that I author.
And I respond to EVERY valid question and point. You know this because I have done this for years.
I just went (again) through each of the two dozen posts you made in this thread, and I don't see any suggestion that I didn't already do on my own, nor any question that is unanswered.
S> Debugging advice requested.
Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay >> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
You are so, so right. The compressor will eventually over heat and might burn out.
Thank you, well said. ====================================================================== >
CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively speaking).
CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.
CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.
CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.
CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric watts into heat.
CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you the repeated hum click.
CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.
CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.
CY: I'm guess>
As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start kit. See>
To keep these parts from com>
No. Sorry, but that takes a lot of skills that the average HO does not have. ====================================================================== >
d) the suggestion Stormy gave yesterday.
I've never tested a relay. Just replace, and see if the unit comes back to life.
You may also answer my questi>
And, w>
CY: Yes, many Italians are Mormons.
CY: She'll love it!
CY: Not s>
Yes. I can. Totally what I diagnosed yesterday. ====================================================================== >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed.
But, did you ever do any th> >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Pump out all the refrigerant. Saw the t> There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth > looking at.
D> >> Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago,
Th>
You never answered my questi>
"not found" is what the web page says. ====================================================================== >
I added a g to the end of the URL, and got a picture. I can't comment >
Co>
If you'd d> >
Yes, it's obvious that you d>
When you run into a problem, you can either do things differently, or force harder, using the technique which has failed up to that point.
I offered you (repeatedly) a chance to do differently, and you ignored me repeatedly. This post is an example of try>
N> I can't be any more blunt (and I don't do riddles).
It's under this header, and also under subject l> I was throwing away the frig as of this morning, so, there was no need to
When you go back and answer my question, I'll consider answer yours. ====================================================================== ======================================================================
As you know, I don't read every thread here. I just read the threads that I author.
And I respond to EVERY valid question and point. You know this because I have done this for years.
I just went (again) through each of the two dozen posts you made in this thread, and I don't see any suggestion that I didn't already do on my own, nor any question that is unanswered.
S> Debugging advice requested.
Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay >> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
You are so, so right. The compressor will eventually over heat and might burn out.
Thank you, well said. ====================================================================== >
CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively speaking).
CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.
CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.
CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.
CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric watts into heat.
CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you the repeated hum click.
CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.
CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.
CY: I'm guess>
As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start kit. See>
To keep these parts from com>
No. Sorry, but that takes a lot of skills that the average HO does not have. ====================================================================== >
d) the suggestion Stormy gave yesterday.
I've never tested a relay. Just replace, and see if the unit comes back to life.
You may also answer my questi>
And, w>
CY: Yes, many Italians are Mormons.
CY: She'll love it!
CY: Not s>
Yes. I can. Totally what I diagnosed yesterday. ====================================================================== >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed.
But, did you ever do any th> >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Pump out all the refrigerant. Saw the t> There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth > looking at.
D> >> Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago,
Th>
You never answered my questi>
"not found" is what the web page says. ====================================================================== >
I added a g to the end of the URL, and got a picture. I can't comment >
Co>
If you'd d> >
Yes, it's obvious that you d>
When you run into a problem, you can either do things differently, or force harder, using the technique which has failed up to that point.
I offered you (repeatedly) a chance to do differently, and you ignored me repeatedly. This post is an example of try>
N> I can't be any more blunt (and I don't do riddles).
It's under this header, and also under subject l> I was throwing away the frig as of this morning, so, there was no need to
When you go back and answer my question, I'll consider answer yours. ====================================================================== ======================================================================
As you know, I only come to alt.home.repair when I have a problem, and when I author a thread, I read *everything* in the thread, supplying photos and model numbers and references, etc.,
I never read any other threads. I just don't.
You know that too, because I've never responded to a thread outside my threads. (Well, sometimes I get Oren asking me to answer a post about garage door springs...).
Anyway, since you asked this *outside* of the thread I authored, I didn't see it until just now because I don't read this newsgroup. I only respond
*inside* the threads I author.
The machine is, as noted in the OP of that other thread, not under warranty because Sears has a 1 year and 5 year warranty but the machine was bought in 2010 (as noted in that OP) so the warranty expired last year.
As you know also from that OP, I have never even looked at a refrigerator; however, as you may know from this forum, I've repaired my washing machine (replacing the motor control board) and many times I've repaired my pool pumps, and I've replaced my own garage door springs, etc., so, I'm as good as anyone with electrical repairs.
I have a VOM and a DMM and I built test jigs and I took college physics and chemistry and tons of other classes and I built my own class A amplifiers when I was fifteen (Silicon Germanium) so I know all about capacitors resistors diodes transistors, etc.. I've wired my own computers, and I've written assembly language programs, and I've debugged basic appliances.
Having said that, I've never worked on a refrigerator before.
I author threads and read and respond to *every* post in the threads I author. I don't, as a rule, read the newsgroup, and never have.
I've been on this newsgroup for years, and I have been doing that for years.
So I never looked *outside* the thread I authored (why would a question be to me about the thread I authored but outside the thread I authored?).
Anyway, the machine is not in warranty and the first post of the thread I authored showed that since it's a 5 year warranty at Sears and the machine is 6 years old.
The warranty doesn't matter.
What matters is that the compressor doesn't start, and only started two or three times when I put the hard-start capacitor on it.
Here are all the posts from you in the relevant thread. I know of no questions you asked in that relevant thread that I didn't answer. And I know of no suggestions from you in that relevant thread that I haven't already tried.
What I know is not there is an explanation of why the compressor might start with the hard-start cap 2 out of 20 times.
It pulls 3 amps when it runs; 13.5 amps when it's locked. The LRA is 17.6 amps.
Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay >> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
You are so, so right. The compressor will eventually over heat and might burn out.
Thank you, well said. ====================================================================== >
CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively speaking).
CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.
CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.
CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.
CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric watts into heat.
CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you the repeated hum click.
CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.
CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.
CY: I'm guess>
As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start kit. See>
To keep these parts from com>
No. Sorry, but that takes a lot of skills that the average HO does not have. ====================================================================== >
d) the suggestion Stormy gave yesterday.
I've never tested a relay. Just replace, and see if the unit comes back to life.
You may also answer my questi>
And, w>
CY: Yes, many Italians are Mormons.
CY: She'll love it!
CY: Not s>
Yes. I can. Totally what I diagnosed yesterday. ====================================================================== >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed.
But, did you ever do any th> >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Pump out all the refrigerant. Saw the t> There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth > looking at.
D> >> Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago,
Th>
You never answered my questi>
"not found" is what the web page says. ====================================================================== >
I added a g to the end of the URL, and got a picture. I can't comment >
Co>
If you'd d> >
Yes, it's obvious that you d>
When you run into a problem, you can either do things differently, or force harder, using the technique which has failed up to that point.
I offered you (repeatedly) a chance to do differently, and you ignored me repeatedly. This post is an example of try>
N> I can't be any more blunt (and I don't do riddles).
It's under this header, and also under subject l> I was throwing away the frig as of this morning, so, there was no need to
When you go back and answer my question, I'll consider answer yours. ====================================================================== ======================================================================
There are pictures galore of me not only dusting off the compressor coils, but also blowing 100psi compressed air, and even a story about how my sister saw all the dust that came out streamed across the kitchen floor for more than 10 feet.
There are also pictures of the coils very clean and they aren't and never were the problem, simply because dusty coils can not cause a compressor not to start. They can cause a compressor to work harder and overheat (simply because they're not cooling - but they can't possibly cause a compressor not to start).
As for picking and choosing, I read *all* posts in the threads that I author, and I respond to all valid posts in the threads I author.
I have been doing this for years in this newsgroup, so you know this. I also do not respond to threads that I don't author, which also you should know by now (simply becuase I have almost never done it).
The only reason I even saw this thread is that SM said that he asked a question and I tried to find what the heck he was talking about.
I still haven't found the questi> Debugging advice requested.
Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay >> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
You are so, so right. The compressor will eventually over heat and might burn out.
Thank you, well said. ====================================================================== >
CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively speaking).
CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.
CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.
CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.
CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric watts into heat.
CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you the repeated hum click.
CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.
CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.
CY: I'm guess>
As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start kit. See>
To keep these parts from com>
No. Sorry, but that takes a lot of skills that the average HO does not have. ====================================================================== >
d) the suggestion Stormy gave yesterday.
I've never tested a relay. Just replace, and see if the unit comes back to life.
You may also answer my questi>
And, w>
CY: Yes, many Italians are Mormons.
CY: She'll love it!
CY: Not s>
Yes. I can. Totally what I diagnosed yesterday. ====================================================================== >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed.
But, did you ever do any th> >
Danny, are my posts mak>
Pump out all the refrigerant. Saw the t> There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth > looking at.
D> >> Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago,
Th>
You never answered my questi>
"not found" is what the web page says. ====================================================================== >
I added a g to the end of the URL, and got a picture. I can't comment >
Co>
If you'd d> >
Yes, it's obvious that you d>
When you run into a problem, you can either do things differently, or force harder, using the technique which has failed up to that point.
I offered you (repeatedly) a chance to do differently, and you ignored me repeatedly. This post is an example of try>
N> I can't be any more blunt (and I don't do riddles).
It's under this header, and also under subject l> I was throwing away the frig as of this morning, so, there was no need to
When you go back and answer my question, I'll consider answer yours. ====================================================================== ======================================================================
Actually, the first time I asked was without changing the subject line. After you ignored my question (with same subject line), I changed the subject line to make it more obvious.
No, I don't follow your posting pattern. I'd not even notice if you commented on other subjects.
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