OT: Black Friday

[Greg G]

Just a reminder for those who are stupid enough to stand in the cold at 4:00am waiting for some idiot mall or big-box store to open for Friday's hoped for binge of consumer excess. Read the labels! This is where your money is going:

is what this was about: is a reason that Harbor Freight tool is $20. (Aside from it being marginal garbage to begin with...)

Now let's go shopping!

This morning's news consisted of minute by minute updates on traffic patterns to all the local malls and WalMarts, constant reminders to hit the stores before the crap is gone, and everybody on the air wants a new big screen with a life span of < two years. Baaa aaa aaa aa.

Perhaps it's just me, but I find this all utterly disgusting. Just call me Scrooge, 'cause I'm not spending one thin dime on anything imported - leaving cigarettes, booze and hookers. Ho, ho, ho, indeed. :)

Greg G.

[J. Clarke]

> Which is what this was about:

So whose computer are you using, since you refuse to own one.

[Leon]

> Which is what this was about:

Been a while since you got any?

[HeyBub]

Sigh. When each nation does what it does best, and freely trades with other nations, all the people benefit. Adam Smith in his "Wealth of Nations" settled all this hash in the 18th Century.

If I've got $6.00, I can buy a U.S. made hammer. Or, I can buy a Chinese-made hammer for $3.00 and have money left over for nails (also made in China)!

The latter condition has to be better than the former.

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:28:55 -0500, the infamous Greg G. scrawled the following:

WTF does either of those articles have to do with shopping?

I bought batteries and pillows this morning. BF no mo!

-- Q: How many climate scientists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. There's a consensus that it's going to change, so they've decided to keep us in the dark.

[Greg G]

Ah, Well - it worked for McCarthy. Not "upset" over that incident, but of our ignorance in general. Amazing how we've gone from massive military buildups against the "evil commies" of the Soviet Union to handing over our entire financial integrity and manufacturing base to the "evil commies" of China. But seriously, do you really think they intend to leave Taiwan alone once their toy ships and bases are finished? Do you think that the DoD doesn't consider the massive buildup of military prowess to be a concern? The point is, why are we voluntarily doing this to our financial and security well being. It's a bad thing, and certainly not worth a box of half-priced crap nails that the heads pop off of, or a buggy of crappy tainted plastic toys.

Everyone break out the flowers and sing Kumbaya. World peace is here! We vilify Iran and N. Korea, and even Iraq for far less ostentatious displays of military and nationalist focus. Are all those western dollars (and debt) injected into their economy softening their official rhetoric? Not even. And this has little to do with the citizens of China, they are mostly victims as well.

So, let me see if I understand the public's position on this. It's Dems/Repubs/God's fault for a declining economy and unemployment, but we ignore the root source of the problem which is massive outsourcing to third world countries while maintaining a persistant

6-1 negative trade balance. Hmmm... Interesting.

I could care less about adjudication of the incident. Only pointing out that they are investing huge amounts of money into military buildup, and the US is trying to collect additional intelligence.

I have no doubt we were, and why we were confronted. Yet I would think some 200 more nukes floating around the world's seas would be something to be concerned about.

But that's OK - go fill up your Borg cart with junk that offers no employment opportunities to your neighbors in foreclosure and is used by the recipient for militaristic buildups which will result in a counter by our own forces. Everybody's happy! Well, the mil-contractors, import barons, and bankers are, anyway. Suckers.

Greg G.

[Greg G]

It was a suggestion that you avoid imported crap while doing so - use your imagination. Sorry to burst your happy-go-shopping mindset. :) Yet good luck finding anything that isn't imported crap.

Seriously, 85% of the content of the average shopping cart comes from China, another 10% from other assorted Asian dictatorships. Those $60 Nikes you're so fond of are produced by teenagers in a sweat shop for a cost of $4. And the underwear, socks, tools, TVs, lamps, clothes, throw rugs, iPods, phones, computers, batteries... If you are not of the investor class you are dead meat and by your own hands.

I bought booze, cigarettes, a chili-cheese dog, and twins. :) And put a half dozen US citizens to work.

Greg G.

[Greg G]

3ghz x2/p45/4gb/nv9500/dual 320gb HDD/single DVD/CDR at $320. Last year and the first in 8 years. I assemble my own computers, and the MB and most parts were manufactured in Taiwan. The CPU is Malay, drives from Thailand and S.Korea. And if I could I would exclude several of the latter as well as I don't condone exploitation, dictatorships, slave and prison labor, or baron economics.

Greg G.

[Greg G]

A simple minded treatise from the 18th century is hardly convincing of anything. We're not talking Swiss chocolates, BMWs and Cannolis here. This is not free commerce between two similarly developed countries.

In 1985 we sold China $3,855.7M and imported $3,861.7M. A -6M deficit. Not so bad...

In 2008 our trade deficit with China was -268,039.8 Million. Exporting $69,732.8M and importing $337,772.6M. Dude, they're not buying whatever it is we're selling...

But, with that scenario in mind, what are we best at? What can or do we sell to the world? Crooked bankers, bad debt, and war machinery? Con men? Corn and wheat? Cigarettes? Oh, happy day.

How about something a bit more recent and to the point: From the United States Business and Industry Council's Alan Tonelson, "The Race to the Bottom: Why a Global Worker Surplus and Uncontrolled Free Trade are Sinking American Living Standards."

Great, a pot-metal hammer and a box of galvanized nails that rust and the heads pop off of. Good stuff! Been there, tried that junk.

Yet what I no longer have is an employed neighbor, another foundry, and a quality product produced by an accountable company due to its residence and reachability on home soil. What I do have is another dictatorship funding its barons and nuclear military expansion with western consumer dollars. Smart.

Greg G.

[J. Clarke]

In other words you lied about not spending one thin dime on anything imported.

[HeyBub]

Communist China poses no threat to Taiwan.

The most cowardly thing in the world is money. Any overt military action by China and all the world's trade with China disappears and the country collapses into chaos.

Moving money around in a closed economic system does not create wealth - it merely redistributes it. In the fullness of time, a small group of clever individuals own most of the wealth while the general population is impovorished, OR, with sufficient governmental intervention, everybody is roughly equal. The downside of the latter is that anything the government does destroys wealth, never creates any, so the end result is that everybody is destitute.

As for your claim that imported products offer no employment opportunities for one's neighbors, consider the largest private employer in the world: Walmart.

[Jay Pique]

Sounds like one of those SAT questions...."Walmart is to Employment Opportunity as: __________ is to ____________ ."

Maybe someone can fill in the blanks? I've got a couple ideas, but they aren't well enough formed yet for publication.

Carry on.

JP

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:39:32 -0500, the infamous Greg G. scrawled the following:

I've bought plenty of American-made stuff at the evil Wally World. (hardware, paint, fabrics, food, etc.) And there is no way anyone can buy entirely US-made. Pandora's Box has been opened and Free Trade is here to stay, so why fight it?

Where'd you get your stats? Cites, please. The Duracells I got were made in the USA. The Serta pillow shells were made in China, but the fiberfill was US made and finish work was done in the USA, probably by illegal _immigrants_ in a _sweatshop_ in Commerce, CA. Are you happy now, Greg? ;)

OK, all those people in the sweat shops are happy to have above-average wages, while some are just happy to be working. Underwear and socks are all made on machines, not by hand.

I wear $30 Reeboks, btw.

Ooh, got pics of the twins? Teens or older women?

Are you certain about that? Let's see, booze made in TN by hillbillies (then packed/trucked by illegals), cigs machine-made after being harvested by illegal aliens, chili made by illegal aliens in US sweat-kitchen, dogs made with horse/pig/goat/cow/chicken castoffs--by illegals and inbred Arkansans (like Clintoon), buns made by 'Murricans. OK, I'll give you one of those. You hadn't thought about your purchases in much depth, had you?

So, how much better off is our country after adding in your fine shopping habits yesterday, sir?

Damned Yuppies.

-- Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:39:59 -0500, the infamous Greg G. scrawled the following:

So, you're saying "I make my living off the backs of others, but I don't take _joy_ in it...all the way to the bank.", eh?

OK. (:-\

-- Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:40:55 -0500, the infamous Greg G. scrawled the following:

Is it any wonder? The prices our goods have been driven to by the liberals, attorneys, and unions are 3 to 50 times that of the exact same item produced in China. But they do still buy a lot of our products. Just nothing in comparison, quantity-wise.

The public is being squeezed by increased prices, resulting in their screaming for lower prices. Businesses find that they could lower prices (and increase shares) by several methods. They respond by changing sources (like offshoring, import only) and building factories overseas. Result: More people out of work, screaming for lower prices.

How much of this is the result of the gov'ts (city/county/state/fed) reacting to idiots? How much is the result of corporations being led by stockholders, who demand that the corp maximize their earnings?

It's a complex problem we won't work out here.

If you dislike the USA so much, Greg, you _are_ free to move, right?

Or we could get back to woodworking, which is already in progress...

-- Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

[Dave Balderstone]

OOH! OOH! I know! Teacher, ask ME!

;-)

[dpb]

Larry Jaques wrote: ...

The ag export business is one of if not the largest positive contributors to the trade deficit we have yet we can't get congress-critters to move on several outstanding trade agreements to further open certain (primarily South/Central-American at this time) markets by eliminating or substantially reducing their currently high import duties... :(

--

[krw]

The CPU was packaged in Malaysia, it was likely made in the US (if Intel, Germany if AMD).

But you do.

[Dave Balderstone]

You're saying the US ag sector needs OTHER countries to open their markets?

ROTFLMAO!

Now THAT'S comedy!

[dpb]

We have negotiated deals w/ several countries _they_ want authorized, yes. These are bilateral agreements, not US-imposed. The delays are not on substantial bases, only primarily that production agriculture gets very little attention or has any support in current administration as compared to other (as seen to them as more important) issues.

US is also party to WTO agreements and is in continuing negotiations there w/ EU.

S. Korea, China and some specific others have restricted beef and pork imports quite severely over ill-founded (as in contravening general worldwide science-based standards) and local politics.

In the meantime, the US is importing significant other areas from places that don't necessarily follow our practices in regulating pesticide usage, labor rules and so on at very low or no tariff levels.

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