No, they don't. At least not on dry pavement--there's no discernible distance between typical stopping distances for ABS and no ABS. They can beat most drivers most of the time on wet pavement though.
But ABS was not initially sold as a safety feature, it was a performance enhancement.
J. Clarke wrote: ...
...
As long as the driver can exert maximum braking force and not lock them up, anyway...
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Google "ABS dry stopping distance" and you will find the results of numerous tests in which it was shown that ABS does not significantly reduce dry stopping distance. Doesn't matter if the diver locks them up, he still hits about the same number as ABS. Sometimes ABS is a couple of feet shorter, sometimes it's a couple of feet longer, there's no consistent pattern of reduced stopping distance.
May I spell it out for you? I'm using a SWAG to estimate an 80ips speed. Perhaps someone can actually -time- the speed of a flailing hand as a person slips and tries to catch himself. Then have Sawstop test a wiener at that speed instead of in slow-mo, as they do now.
Very likely true, but we won't know until we see the experiment performed. What I'm saying is that the demo is deficient, showing only the best-case scenarios. Let's see worst-case!
-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Larry Jaques" wrote
Shall I spell it out for you? If the blade guard is in place as it should be (and I might add will most likely be in the case of an owner who thinks he/she needs the safety margin the SawStop is supposed to provide) the damage will likely be less than you suggest. or not?
Max
What blade guard would stop ones hand from sliding forward into the blade. If it doesn't stop wood, how is a hand any different?
Ok, that sounds reasonable but only if you yourself start the experiment with the saw of your choice including the SawStop. which one are you going to choose......?
Um.....well.....You pose a difficult question. I may be supposing a blade guard like mine where one would have to be in a rather unique position to slide his hand under the guard and into the *teeth* of the spinning blade. Not that it couldn't happen but............. I guess I would have to agree with those who propose that "nothing is fool proof".
Max
Is your guard not tapered on the front like most? Doesn't it get lifted up by the stock pushing into the front of it? Again, how is that different from a hand slipping off the wood, or someone slipping forward and pushing their hand forward to catch themselves. Both are pretty common causes of table saw injuries.
Actually ABS brakes do indeed work better on dry pavement. One might think incorrectly that dry pavement would make all tires lock up at the same time and there fore "fool" the ABS into thinking that the vehicle was stopped. In real life the rear wheels will typically lock up first as the weight shifts to the front of the vehicle and the rear tires then lock up while the front tires are still spinning. And then there are instances when there is an accumulation of sand or dirt on the street that causes a wheel or wheel to lock up. Add to that list rough pavement that would cause a tire to bounce off the ground during breaking and lock up. I have experienced all three of those examples in my Tundra and the ABS brakes faithfully engaged.
A few years ago I went to a Woodcraft demo days event, and the Sawstop guy was there. He was tired of listening to the kind of prattle he was hearing about "not trying to injure himself" the "right way" or in any way the audience could imagine for him.
We were his last stop on demo days. He had a pile or cartridges, so he decided to show us how fast the saw would stop and how easy it was to replace a cartridge.
He SLAPPED the blade with a Hebrew National wiener (I know some here would probably like to know the exact product for their research rebuttals but all I saw was the package) and it stopped like a shot.
That thing stops so fast it is almost scary. With the SLAP (imagine you are falling backwards out of your attic through sheetrock onto a spinning saw left running by the neighbor's teenage prankster) trying to duplicate the unexpected, he was able to scratch the surface of the wiener. I think it might have drawn blood, but nothing to worry about.
I was sold. My next saw will probably be a Sawstop for the safety reason, but having used one in my friend's shop, I found them to be excellent pieces of equipment.
Robert
Mean cuss, ain't ya? Telling a consumer advocate to go maim himself. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Leon.
I'd choose the saw which didn't have the asshole attorney attached to it, the Whirlwind licensed machine, of course.
-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I watched that Tony MacDonald wood thing on PBS for the first time, in HD no less. ( and likely last time as it is too Dane Cook without any humour...just a little too slick and overproduced.) I'm thinking that's a Sawstop he's got there AND a big stack of Festools. And why not? Sawstop is THE saw to own and use. I'd have one in a heartbeat. I wonder where Tony is going to park his TimeSaver?
And when you cut something off, some asshole attorney is going to be your painful best friend.
I'd buy the Sawstop too, except for one thing. A standard tablesaw is too high for me to safely use. The only option for me is the Access model General 650. Considering it cost as much or a little more than the Sawstop, the factor of money doesn't really come into play, not unless I'd be willing to spend some $10,000 or more for a computer controlled saw. And yes, I inquired if there was enough space inside the Sawstop cabinet to possibly lower the saw and there isn't, not even close. Not to mention the voiding of any warranty.
But did you stop shorter than you would have without ABS and if so how did you determine this? And why does every test comparing ABS with no ABS on dry pavement conclude that it does not stop shorter?
Would it be possible to lower the saw into an elevated platform with gentle ramps? How much of a height difference are we talking about?
It's funny to see an post to me from someone who has been in my twit filter for several years now. What he doesn't realize is that good people don't need nor use attorneys for self-inflicted wounds. They take responsibility for their actions, unlike the liberal idiots in Uppy's small circle.
A wheelchair-height workspace is usually 24-26", so lowering would probably be about 10 inches.
-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
For the amounts of money you are talking about, would raising the floor
10 inches around and in the vicinity of the saw be unthinkable? Or, IIRC, are you working in a smallish interior room?Bill
ABS offers one difference under the following, and often encountered conditions:
Place the right side of the car on something slippery, like ice...the left side of the car on dry pavement....go 50 MPH and slam on the brakes full engagement.
Do this with ABS and do this with regular brakes. Compare.
or
Slam on the brakes in a tight curve..on snow...try to steer while braking.
Do this with ABS and do this with regular brakes. Compare.
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