OK, I'll go with the SawStop. Now we are going to shove our hands up under the guard as fast as we can like we are playing hand ball. We'll see who has the bigger cut. Better yet, you can do yours with your saw turned off, I'll let the SawStop run to give you an advantage, maybe.
IIRC the Whirlwind blade simply stops, the speed of your hand will probably produce a pretty good cut when it hits that stationary blade. The SawStop blade of course instantly stops spinning AND drops below the table.
A- hole attorney or not, I am going with what offers ME the most protection.
The Whirlwind will make all of this type technology become more reasonably priced but so far it's a "me too" that does not offer the same amount of protection.
Sawstop is a passive safety system. You don't have to do anything but contact the blade to make it work. Ideally, you would use the saw and system your entire life and never activate the brake system. If that happens, repair is a minor cost considering the alternative.
This is a neat idea but it is active, vs passive. The guard has to be on the saw, not hanging on the wall. Also, it is not usable for a lot of tablesaw operations (Miter, vertical fence use, jigs and fixtures, etc.) But the dust collection is a pretty nice add in.
It would be possible with ramps as I've talked about previously, but it would be a ramp for the saw only. Ramps in themselves are inherently dangerous for wheelchairs because they contribute to a change of balance and equilibrium while you're using them. I'd be much more likely to tip my wheelchair and break a leg or something while going up or down a ramp than I would ever be cutting a finger off with a tablesaw. And in this case, we're talking about a 6"-8" difference needed for a ramp to equalize the difference between a standard height Sawstop and an Access model General
You're talking about a much larger area. It would be a number of feet around the saw to accomodate the wheelchair rolling safetly around the saw and not unwittingly going over an edge. I'd suggest that a safe zone would be in excess of 200' square feet. An average wheelchair requires an approximate minimum of 5 feet for a turning radius. So, think of a five foot wide border around a saw. Add onto that infeed and outfeed tables and the space needed grows exponentionally.
He's been over this before--in a word no, it won't work for him. Think about it--you're on the raised floor, there's something you need that's three feet away, but you have to go down the ramp in the opposite direction and then wheel around to it to get it. Not to mention having to have railings on the raised area to keep from accidentally rolling off and mangling yourself . . .
If the whole shop floor could be raised it would likely be another story, but then headroom for people who are not in chairs (or just for handling stock) could be an issue.
It occurs to me though that a rather baroque but workable approach, if a pit can be made for the saw, is to make the pit with a jacking mechanism so that the saw can be lowered into it at need and lifted to be rolled off on its mobile base when it's not needed, and the jacking mechanism would raise the floor to level when the saw is not in use. The details would require either a commercial product of some sort (I can't even think of good keywords for such a thing) or the services of an engineer to design the thing.
It occurse to me that it could probably be cobbled with some threaded rod, sprockets and chain (or cog belt), appropriate structural members, and a crank, essentially making a huge router lift. If you wanted to get fancy it could probably be motorized.
Probably wouldn't be cheap but should be _doable_. I suspect that McMaster can provide all the parts you need that aren't Home Depot or hardware-store items.
I don't yet have a TS, but I intuitively keep my hands away from things spinning at 4000 RPM. A normal blade guard appears to offer "good" protection. I will increase my level of protection when it's cost is more modest. Until then I will exercise due caution--like I do when I use my chain saw. Seems like a chain saw is more dangerous, no? At least the TS blade is fixed in 2 dimensions. I am watching the technology, and this discussion, with interest.
If it was a 20 by 24 foot garage like I have now, it may be plausable. If fact, entering from the kitchen, where there are currently two steps, and you would already be 12 inches above the ground (concrete). Reducing from 8.5 feet leaves enough head space for everyone else, as far as I would be concerned. Doesn't seem as thought the price would be exorbitant. May as well thread a bunch of wires underneath, at the same time, for convenient electrical.
As Max says, nothing is foolproof. But what you're positing is a situation where the hand is pushing a piece of wood under the guard. Not the case under discussion where someone is falling into the blade at high speed. In that case their hand would hit the top of the guard.
A good point of view to have BUT you may eventually progress past cutting
2x4's and start to build more complicated/detailed projects. You may need to cut smaller pieces. There comes a point where a standard blade guard becomes a problem because of it's inherent design. You have heard of kick back, a piece gets trapped between a stationary object, usually the fence, and the spinning blade. The guard is a stationary object and small cut off pieces can and do get trapped up inside the guard and the spinning blade. Some what like a bullet the piece gets thown out. Bigger pieces can shoot out the side of the guard if trapped under and the guard is setting on top of the waste piece. IMHO it is a "blade guard" not a person guard. It does a good job at keeping things from falling on and damaging the blade. Yes I have been hit by small pieces while using the blade guard, don't recall small pieces setting free on the table top ever getting caught and thrown.
I believe my situation is the exact scenario we're discussing. Who's going to fall straight down onto a running saw? Are guy turning your saw on and then changing your light bulbs or what? :-)
The real life scenario is one on which someone's hand slips forward in the same direction one is feeding stock into the blade. Several things could happen. You're leaning forward over the saw, feeding a board or plywood, there's sawdust on the floor, your feet go back, your arms go forward. You're feeding stock forward into the blade, there is kick back, your hands slip forward. You're using a lousy push stick that breaks or slips on sawdust, whoosh! You're feeding stock, your dog jumps on your back because you didn't put him on a leash and he's not don't playing. (real life scenario... I'm not working with that guy anymore)
All of these are situations in which one's hand would go straight forward, much faster than normal feed rate, under a flip-up blade guard.
I'd like to see the engineering figures on just what that extra 114 milliseconds of time means in the travel of the blade.
What we still don't know, however, is the result of a high-speed hand into a Sawstop machine. That should have been one of his selling points...unless it renders the mechanism somewhat useless. That's my guess, anyway.
But even if I had the money for a new Sawstop, I don't think I'd buy one because of the principle. I don't want to knowingly feed greed and arrogance, wherever they exist, if I can possibly help it.
-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
And *I* wouldn't buy one because when the time comes that my common sense, agility, and attention to safety factors are so badly deteriorated that I feel the need for the device I will discontinue using a table saw.
Just curious, does anyone else share this experience/point of view--that blade guards are unsafe due to a greater likelihood of small pieces being thrown?
Most of us never plan our accidents. It would be an oxymorin
Most of the saw accidents I have heard of get the fingers on a knee-jerk reaction to a sudden event...like kickback or pieces flying and the human overreacts pulling their baby finger and next one past the blade backwards.
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guards are hardly ever there when needed except for safety checks.
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