The saw wasn't turned on??? Then how would the SawStop have helped?
I'd be interested in learning about that accident. Seriously. As a
paramedic for several years, I saw a lot of accidents.
The worst accident I've had in the shop (in over forty years) was when I was
cutting a slim piece of plastic off the edge of a 2'X4' piece (for a
recessed fluorescent light)
I was using one of those notorious "razor" knives, utility knife, whatever.
I cut a nasty gash in my left thumb.
But I must confess to having had 3 beers on a hot afternoon. That was about
twenty years ago. Never again.
I perceive of a good many more potentials in the shop for accidents compared
to the likelihood of my contacting the moving blade on my table saw.
It's a question (to me) of priorities.
I have no doubt that the SawStop is a fine product. It might even end up
being a requirement by OSHA. It would certainly be a recommended item in a
But considering the odds of me:
1. winning the lottery
2. pushing my finger into a spinning saw blade.
I choose to forego the expenditure.
The motor does not have to be running for the SawStop to work. The blade
was still spinning down after the cut. I was reaching over to lift the rip
fence off the table after cutting a dado. Just the coast down speed did the
Just keep in mind that the accident that happens is the one that is not
planned for. No one could believe that I could have had the accident that I
had. The lesson I learned was to never look away from a machine or blade
that is still moving whether you are actually doing a procedure or not.
Geez, Leon, I learned *that* lesson around 1948 while in a shop class in
Safety begins with the operator.
I appreciate the attitude and concern of so many of the posters here but I
still believe in "To each his own".
The point I am trying to make is that you should never actually believe that
everything that you know is going to guarantee your safety 100%. You should
always realize that you are human and can make a mistake or have a lapse in
I spent 33 years in the FD.
I retired and opened a building inspection business inspecting businesses
for insurance companies. I operated that business for 25 years.
I have a bit of a notion about risk management. (which is the point *I'm*
trying to make)
Every individual has a different level of risk........it's human nature.
Surely you've heard the expression, "He/she is accident prone".
It's actually true. Some people cut themselves more than average. Some
stumble and fall. Some run into things,.... ad infinitum.
In my judgment and in my case only, I consider the SawStop an excessive
expense. For me.
I don't think you can imagine my disgust with the device in the extremely
unlikely event that it "triggered" on a "false" event.
I would be tempted to use a cutting torch on the whole machine. *IF* the
expense of repairs was minimal (less than $50) and the repair time was on
the order of 1/2 hour or less, I *might* be tempted. *Provided* that the saw
itself was, in my opinion, worth the investment.
I don't mean to denigrate the saw or the device. I'm just saying that it
doesn't fit *my* needs.
Anyone else must make their own decision.
I am not trying to sell you any thing and am not suggesting that you buy any
safety equipment. I am only saying that only a naive person thinks that he
knows enough to prevent every possible scenario that could lead to an
Now if you have never ever had an accident or cut yourself with a nife or
any similar object I'd say that you were 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000, but I
doubt you all in that percentile.
I hear you, Leon. I'm not sure you're hearing *me*.
I cannot avoid *all* unfortunate circumstances. What if on my next trip to
the lumber yard someone in the oncoming traffic has a blowout and crosses
the line and hits me head-on? I might suggest that the odds are shorter of
that happening than the odds of me sticking my hand into a spinning saw
blade. It's all about risk management. You choose how to manage those
risks you recognize. I recognize the possibility of having an accident with
my table saw (and a myriad of other risks in my shop) The cost/benefit
ratio of the SawStop does not appeal to me. I have already stated what costs
would alter the ratio.
Let me repeat:
I recognize the hazards. I recognize that I am *not* immune. I choose to
manage my risk differently than you do.
But, again, I do appreciate your advice and apparent concern.
;~) I understand your position on the matter and agree with your logic. I
must have misunderstood you from the beginning and , well you know...
I incorrecetly compared you to a few that I have seen in the past in this
group that seriousely believed that they were incapable of having an
accident because they knew all the safety rules and followed them with out
deviation and that they had no reason to believe that that situation would
I applaud the quality of your summary, whether the cost/benefit ratio
makes sense for me or not. Of course, I think there is something in
people which perhaps colors their perceptions of their chances of
getting hurt--especially with a few thousand dollars on the line. I like
to think that for the sake of a few thousand dollars I'm willing to be
extra careful, but I know I'm not perfect. I also expect I'm not going
to be spending hundreds of hours at my TS. Maybe there will soon be
some additional choices in the marketplace--they can't be too far off.
I saw a statistic that people that point out statistics in totally
unrelated areas are arguing emotionally.
The fact that you feel a need to respond to someone saying in a kindly
way that they manage their risks differently means you are not
handling those emotions at all well.
Yes, but there are all kinds of mishaps that can lead to all kinds of
accidents. SawStop helps prevent basically one sort.
Some people mentioned accidents with a TS blade even though the blade
wasn't moving. Are these the result of reaching across the blade or
falling on it in some way? I honestly never considered those possibilities.
The salesman at Woodcraft say that the Sawstop is better than the Unisaw
even without the safety features. BTW, the "industrial model" (30" wide
table) is $4500, and the "professional model" (w/27" table) is closer to
$2900. Mobile bases are an extra $200, or $300 for the "hydraulic"
version. Salesman was not aware of any differences between the
industrial and professional models beyond the size of the table and the
location of the blade adjustment cranks. At this juncture, I am not
seriously considering spending $4500 on a TS anyway. One needs to draw
the line somewhere...lol.
LOL,,, If not careful a new Forrest WWII can cut you while you are simply
trying to mount it for the first time. Spend enough time in the shop and
you will learn a way to cut your self with a stationary blade when you least
expect it. ;~) Stepping out into the shop is a risk.
Mobile bases are an extra $200, or $300 for the "hydraulic"
I would think there would be more to it than that, perhaps a comparison of
NEVER, repeat, NEVER put faith in what _any_ salesman tells you,
regardless (and particularly in woodworking/hobby stores) ... the ten
percent of the time they may be even close to right will not make up for
the 99% they are not. ;)
Always consider motive ...
Whenever I take an interest in some field of endeavor, I try to learn as much
as I can about it, and until I do, I don't open my mouth and claim to be any
sort of expert. As a woodworker and a musician (ok, a DRUMMER) with several
decades of experience under my belt, I do know a thing or two but I still don't
claim to be an expert. Because of those interests, Woodcraft and Guitar Center
are two retail stores where I can sometimes be found browsing the merchandise.
It never ceases to amaze me how simply being an employee at one of those
places automatically makes you a genius, and I can't count the number of times
I've been automatically treated as a rank amateur by some idiot salesman who
thinks he knows everything. I just love putting people like that in their
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
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