VW Generators

No, that won't happen. Some cobbled up arrangement with second hand engines won't last two minutes anyway.

Reply to
harryagain
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A proper CHP/co-generation engine recovers heat from the engine jacket, exhaust gases and oil. They are as efficient as condensing boiler, the advantage being that a portion of the gas/other fuel is turned into a more valuable product that can be exported (electricity).

It has to be capable of running for many thousands of hours but will need maintenance. (Oil changes etc) So your beat up scrapper engine won't do. But the engine is running in far nearer to ideal conditions than for traction.

Even industrial sized ones are not cheap (pro rata). So domestic sized ones are going to be really expensive plus there is all the gear for parallel operation.

Plus you need a use for the heat, so that means Winter only running in most cases, so it will take a long time to recover the capital.

The ones I had experience of preheated steam boiler feedwater all the year round & even than the economics were marginal.

But fuel prices/economics have changed since then.

Reply to
harryagain

Reply to
tony sayer

So what do you suggest for large scale power generation then Oh wise one?..

Reply to
tony sayer

Tony, do you think can include some context so we know who the wise one is?

Reply to
Huge

Not when you are forced to buy from a very small list of "approved" suppliers who must also install your approved equipment before you qualify for any FIT payment.

Reply to
Peter Parry

Haven't you learnt yet? repeating it doesn't make it true!

Reply to
dennis

But harry they generate CO2 so are bad, very bad, very very bad as you keep telling us!

Also they don't work well in well insulated houses as they just throw away the heat like they do in summer. Not all of us have a need to heat a swimming pool.

Reply to
dennis

He wants us to import lots of foreign solar panels where they have been burning loads of fossil fuels to make them and transport them.

Next it will be batteries where they have burnt loads of fossil fuels to make them. Like hybrid cars that actually produce more CO2 in their life than a normal petrol engined car unless you charge it on nuke electricity and never travel more than a couple of miles.

Reply to
dennis

That's obviously not a physical limit so much as a FIT rate limit. The larger 15KW Hydro FIT rate provides a greater financial incentive for someone lucky enough to have access to the natural resource of an energetic flow of water nearby.

Not really but even just reducing my net consumption from the Grid could make it a worthwhile exercise since it has the added attraction of being able to act as an emergency electrical supply in the event of a blackout.

Obviously, a summertime blackout means you'll be running it purely as a generator and, like all such gensets, be forced to throw away the heat as waste energy (but that's no worse than using a stand alone emergency genset anyway). In this case, you'd be shedding non-critical loads and keeping the electrical consumption to its minimum (you'd have to have a thermostatically linked car radiator and fan to dump the excess heat once the hotwater tank has reached its temperature limit).

The more likely wintertime blackout event means you'll not have to chuck the 'waste heat' away as you'd normally be doing with a regular emergency generator but you'd probably have to connect a 2KW fanheater or two to contribute to the heating shortfall from the engine cooling flow and to increase the loading to raise the coolant temperature in a 'balancing act' that aims to minimise gas consumption for the desired level of heating.

I'm assuming the meter isn't fraudulently prevented from running backwards from the legitimate reverse energy flow you're providing to the grid otherwise you'd be looking at a more expensive battery/converter setup to achieve the electrical savings.

AFAIAA, the 'old fashioned' analogue meters have for many years now been fitted with 'reverse flow' flags to show attempts at defraud by reversing the in and out connections for suitable periods to reduce the net reading which also reveals legitimate exports of energy from a home generated source of electricity. Unfortunately, this complicates the metering requirements for such home installations (CHP, PV, Hydro and wind).

With that being the case, the home owner has no choice but to 'buy' a readymade and certified micro CHP system and take advantage of whatever grants may be available to encourage such 'end user bravery'. I don't imagine they'll be a cheap option (but I've yet to look for any example pricing to see whether this would make any financial sense).

Reply to
Johny B Good

Well shit-fer-brains, run on gas it's a lot less CO2 than petrol or diesel. I already pointed out the summer heat problem. You wouldn't run them in summer.

Reply to
harryagain

Exactly what happens with PV panels.

Reply to
harryagain

We've already been into that in the past.

Reply to
harryagain

In article , harryagain scribeth thus

As maybe but any more sensible answers though?...

Reply to
tony sayer

I hate to have to say this but, for once, Harry does make an excellent point. :-)

Reply to
Johny B Good

Like this.

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Reply to
harryagain

8<

Well it appears its OK to generate CO2 in winter so all we need to do is burn fossil fuel in winter and find some way to store the energy for summer.

These greens always have the wrong answer for everything.

Reply to
dennis

Humm....

At 25 May 2012, a Saturday, solar power reached a new record with feeding 22 GW, as much as 20 nuclear power stations, into the German power grid, which made 50% of the nation's midday's electricity demand.

The jump above the 20 GW level was due to increased capacity and bright sunshine nation-wide..

Well isn't that impressive. Wonder why they don't quote 18:00 hrs on say

25 November ?....

Subsidises aimed at stimulating the growth of renewables have driven up consumer energy prices by 12.5% in the year to 2013.[43] To date, German consumers have absorbed the costs of the Energiewende, but the IEA says that the debate over the social and economic impacts of the new approach has become more prominent as the share of renewable energy has continued to grow alongside rising electricity prices. The transition to a low- carbon energy sector requires public acceptance, and, therefore, retail electricity prices must remain at an affordable level. Presently, German electricity prices are among the highest in Europe, despite relatively low wholesale prices

Humm .. not so good that then.. So where does the power come from when the wind don't blow enough or its not quite that sunny?...

I note they take a bit of power from Nuclear and Hydro power France but where else does it come from?..

Now please don't come up with that silly

"well the winds always blowing somewhere" joke...

Reply to
tony sayer

The *used* to take it from their own nuclear stations, but as they shut them down after the Japanese incident, they just chuck some more brown coal into the boilers nowadays.

They have to do that when it's calm and cloudy in Denmark, too, as the Danes no longer have any fossil fuel generators to speak of, and throw their hands up in horror at the thought of nuclear power.

It's always blowing warm near harry.

Reply to
John Williamson

Running a micro CHP system in winter actually reduces your net CO2 contribution since you're burning, to a very close approximation, the same amount of gas that an 80% efficient boiler would have used only the 20% loss is now being realised as useful electrical energy which reduces the demand on the national grid, reducing the carbon emissions at the coal or gas fired power stations.

Sadly, that's depressingly true. They seem to lack the necessary pragmatism and vision required to make more truly optimum choices in regard of energy production solutions. If they could remove their heads from up their collective arses and 'wake up and smell the coffee', they'd be hollering the loudest for an accelerated LFTR development program.

Whilst Fusion has now finally reached the break even point, even if it's only for 150 picoseconds at a time, it may take yet another 50 years before this techology can be converted into an effective source of energy.

In the meantime, further research on this front will continue to demand vast amounts of energy to continue the Fusion Energy development program. If we don't invest in an interim nuclear power program such as the very promising LFTR technology very soon, we could end up 'being caught short' as the looming energy crisis starts to make itself felt in the developed world.

Reply to
Johny B Good

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