VW. Some news at last!

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said. All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+
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Fixed so they pass emissions legislation? Or that they don't, but have the cheat removed?

Unless they're retrofitting AdBlue, which I doubt but I believe they should, I don't think it's much more than a software bump. If it can be done from a laptop and they contract out, inside 12 months.

Reply to
RJH

But what are they going to do ? Adblue ?

Simon.

Reply to
sm_jamieson

Forgetting the date, but what does "fixed" mean? The cars will meet the emission test without a loss of normal driving performance? The only way to meet the emission test is to reduce the performance of the engine by a significant amount?

I wonder what the resale value will be for an un-fixed car? And if the fix involves a degraded performance what then is the resale value?

Reply to
alan_m

31 Dec 2020 is 1826 days from 1 Jan 2016.

How many cars are affected? 11 million?

So that's an average "fix" rate of 6,000+/day.

How many can a dealership do in a day?

Say 6.

How many dealerships are there in countries with affected vehicles?

1000 dealearships?

Seems to add up.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

The end of *2016* according to the radio just now ...

My German is practically non-existant, but I tend to agree with the radio

"VW will Mängel an Fahrzeugen bis Ende 2016 beheben"

Reply to
Andy Burns

Forget AdBlue. These are EuroV emission cars.

It's going to be a software tickle. The ECU has the ability already to meet the NOx requirements - because it goes into a map that does that, when it sees the test. All that's going to happen is that map'll be used all the time.

Which'll reduce power and increase fuel consumption.

Reply to
Adrian

Agreed

Or they'll simply remove the cheat mode which would never kick in anyway, and leave them running exactly as they are today.

The govt has already said they won't adjust VED, the MOT test has nothing to say on the matter of NOx for diesels, why change any existing cars (beyond removing the cheat to shut up the whiners)?

Reply to
Andy Burns

Because, as you say, just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring the cars would fail EuroV certification, rendering their type approval void.

Reply to
Adrian

That's correct, but it won't meet Euro V, if they do that. I guess that will be one for the lawyers: if the cars were sold as meeting Euro V but only did it with the cheat mode on, will VW be forced to ensure they comply without using it? Presumably, if they hadn't met spec in the first place, they couldn't have been sold. Sadly, I think it's more likely they'll alter the map to be at least a bit more like the cheat, and kill efficiency.

The other thing, IIRC, is that making it meet NOx emissions (probably by increasing EGR?) will (again IIRC) increase particulates.

Reply to
Chris Bartram

And you know that because ... ?

Reply to
Andy Burns

Because there's allegations that the cars emit "more than 40x" the permitted NOx, yet the US NOx requirement is not THAT much stricter than EuroV.

Hell, if they really ARE emitting over 40x, then they'd fail every single Euro standard back to the early '90s.

Reply to
Adrian

Except they are DPF equipped.

It may well mean DPFs in cars used mainly for short journeys get clogged more frequently, of course.

Reply to
Adrian

Lots of conclusion jumping there ... the cheat seems to have been designed for the more stringent USA test, plenty of other cars pass Euro5 after all, of course that might mean *their* cheat modes are more subtle and haven't been spotted yet.

Do their 1.6 and 2.0 litre engines have a DPF? I'm wondering why it doesn't affect the 3.0 versions, most of which don't have AdBlue fitted in Europe ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

It depends if the "tickle" will actually make it undriveable in practise (large power reduction or excessive fuelling).

Reply to
Tim Watts

Everyone knows that in the real world mpg and emissions numbers don't match what they do under test conditions (assuming no cheating). How much difference did the cheat mode make under test conditions 0.9x normal? 0.5x normal? 0.025x normal sounds unlikely.

And if one manufacturer's engines *are* that bad, you can pretty well guarantee all other diesels are bad enough to fail too.

Reply to
Andy Burns

Because it wouldn?t be there on european sold cars unless it was necessary to get type approval in europe.

Reply to
Hanny Z

Unless they didn't want different ECU variants for different continents?

Reply to
Andy Burns

Latest is 'by end 2016'.

The fix is a software update but some may need new injectors and cats.

Reply to
F

A very small proportion of owners may have already had there cars chipped , I suppose they will stay quiet and ignore the recall notices, but then would the insurers have a mechanism to find out if a car had not had the official fix and want to know why. Of course all such people may be as honest as the day is long and told them about a modified chip.

OTOH if the VW change does reduce performance to be noticeable the after market chip makers/re programmers could be busy if word gets around that such things can be done. The vast majority of owners of such cars are not aware such things are available being bought by ordinary family people rather than motor enthusiasts but word could spread beyond the realm of them.

G.Harman

Reply to
damduck-egg

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