See
Surely you can be a registered electrician without the NIECC accreditation ?
Is this your take on draft document ?
"Work self-certified by competent persons. The proposals allow that approved competent persons could self-certify compliance of their electrical installation work with the Building Regulations. Would it be sensible to allow non-approved persons to proceed with electrical installation work without giving prior notice if it is to be certified at completion by someone who is approved? " This in quotes is copied from doc, what you need to know or to be clarified is the definition of 1 competent person, 2 non approved person, and 3 someone who is approved.And from what guidline set of rules or euro manual they come from and what body etc has approved them. Also the scope and paramaters of said persons, approved or competent and there duties.
There are about 7 or 8 registered bodies quoted in OIDPM doc, and federation of small buisnesses is one of them. As you provide a handyman service you can apply to this body I am sure.
This subject has been discussed at college at length with my lecturers. It is not the work that will change, but the isseuing of a minor works certificate, incorporating test results to be issued on alterations, new builds etc aswell. This document can be downloaded off the IEE site.
The problem is unqualified people installing a system. On a domestic installation point, sellers of a property will ( this may be rumour ) eventually l need a certificate to confirm the electrical installation of there property conforms to regs, ( but perhaps this rumour was started by copper and solder manufactures to out the easy fit platic plumbing products out of buisness )
I will be watching this post with interest
this is what happens now. The number of deaths is minimal.
This is exactly what happens now.
And this can happen as well. Currently if I want to work on my house I can, but when I come to sell it someone may ant it checked. what's the big deal.
There was a very long thread on this a few weeks ago.
The rules are full of holes, un-enforcable and potentially create more problems than they solve.
Tim
Hah. A number of years ago (20?) in a town in northern New Jersey, there was a case of an elderly couple brought up on charges for daring to lay plywood down in their kitchen, preparatory to installing new lino/vinyl. Apparently they were supposed to get a permit, and have the work officially inspected - the charges were eventually withdrawn. In many areas, it is (technically) not permitted to install or even move, your own electrical sockets, and working on gas is a definite no-no. Plumbing work, too, requires permits and professionals. The regulations are ignored by many, and the sheds - Home Depot, Lowes, etc, sell vast amounts of supplies to diyers.
Sheila (who has lived in both the US and the UK).
As the OP stated the situation would be worse than for gas fitting, frankly it will be unenforceable.
So, as I own a small business, nothing to do with electrical work, I can apply to the FSB and will be therefore be able to self-cert electrical work in my own home? I doubt it, somehow.
Why is this a problem? Incompetent people, perhaps, but qualification is not a guarantee of competence, and lack of qualification is most certainly not an indication of incompetence.
So does this make a house that does not conform to current regs unsaleable? That kind of makes the wiring regs retrospective legislation.
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
And is more likely to cause deaths I would expect. Where in the past someone may have thought "I will install these five new sockets on a new ring" they may now be tempted to add them as spurs to existing wiring since that would be a "permitted" change that would not need certification. Hence it is encouring people to make changes in way that is less safe just so as to have them classed as minor and hence avoid certification problems.
Also whats to stop someone doing some work in 2005 and if/when asked about certification saying it was completed in 2003 before the regulations?
Jaime
As in all these things the real testing point would come as a result of some other event, most likely in this case the sale of the property.
Undoubtedly conveyancing questionnaires would contain an appropriate question to pick this up. Telling fibs as a vendor in this case would be a serious matter.
Since it appears that seller's packs are likely to become more prevalent and funded by the vendor, one strategy that I expect a lot of people will use would be simply to wait until they want to sell and then pay for a full electrical inspection, which they would have to do anyway.
Another strategy might be to apply for a regularisation at the local authority.
This is one of the many aspects of this whole charade that makes the whole thing pointless.
You will notice if you look on Bruiser's web site that this game of certification by trade organisations is one of the hobby horses and is one of the most cynical pieces of window dressing for a long time.
If you read through the report on this, it is very apparent that only the views of industry stakeholders and the trade organisations have been taken into account. By their own admission, they have ignored the views of everybody else who has written in either directly or via their MPs.
This, along with the multitude of other sins of this cavalier nature will hopefully lead to the early demise of its political perpetrators.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
I can't believe any would say that. We deal in kilos, so I want to see kilos. Do you go into a shop and see a product marked up in pesos? No you don't because we use £s.
The said idiot in Sunderland could have displayed pounds, but the law said he should also show kilos as that is our official metric.
There's an entry cost in terms of training and annual fees that would make it economically unattractive if you are only doing your own work. Also, I believe with NICEIC, you have to have a number of different jobs checked anyway.
If you want to span multiple trades then you would have to belong to multiple organisations. This would prove very expensive.
As Richard says, this is the 21st century version of the closed shop, rather thinly disguised, I am afraid.
Fortunately, as with all restrictive practices, ultimately it doesn't work - the market prevents it.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Balls! Oxbridge, public schools, the royal family, aristocracy, large land owners. Strange that these people close shop the corridors of power. Power = wealth. When the working classes emulated via unions they went ape. How dare they copy us they said, under their breath, we will have to ban them. And they did, while their closed shop continues unabated as it has done for around 1000 years.
Are you going to vote Tory as usual?
I always vote on the balance of issues.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
You said you were against closed shops.
No, I said what I meant.
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
I agree that on a bog standard installation any chimp could do it - the difference is knowing which is a bog standard and which isn't - and why. When I took the 16th edition one of the questions required you to work out the size of an earth conductor. The answer appeared to be a rediculous size but when you factored in the losses / grouping / temperature etc. you could see why it was necessary. How many unqualified diy'ers would have fitted the correct size?
unsaleable?
It shouldn't, the (electrical) regs are neither retrospective or legislation.
Richard
Does the hot weather make your medication ineffective?
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