New Woodburner Regulations

[Andrew]

It seems new woodburner regulations may require the complete redesign of many existing stoves if are to be sold post 2020. See:

This seems to be as radical for these products as the mandating of condensing boilers was for domestic gas applicances. It will be interesting to see how the additional costs stack against the real advantages.

It would seem to favour those manufactures who provide a "trendy" new design each year, and severely impact those who have produced reliable and generally well loved and proven "classic" stoves - such as Clearview.

Ironically it does not address any issues associated with open fires - which are less efficient than even a "poor" stove.

Andrew

[harry]

Traditional wood stoves are very inefficient. 25% is typical. Most of the inefficiency is due to quenching. ie cooling the combustion gases before combustion is complete. So there'slots of scope for improvement. Difficulties arise because of the extreme variations in the fuel. Also, room sealed stoves are a big advantage but not presently recognised.

[Bill Taylor]

it's odd that the Ecodesign directive doesn't seem to apply directly to wood burning heaters at all. The directive is aimed at reducing energy consumption and largely aimed at electrically powered appliances; pollution seems to be only considered peripherally.

Properly used, closed wood burners are fairly clean already. Unfortunately there seems to be a large number of owners who burn wet fuel and burn with to little air which will make any appliance, however many regulations ir complies with smoke. The proper approach to wood burner pollution is to ban them all in any but the smallest community, they are a completely pointless lifestyle gimmick for most people.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Hahhahaha. The two new builds going yo here both are to have air sourced heatpumps because oil boilers are now essentially banned on efficiency grounds. Both have chimneys, for wood burners which will be the ONLY source of heat if the electricity supply fails, which it does, quite often, for periods of several hours due to overhead lines and trees and weather.

[Jeff Layman]

Why do my hackles rise when I see *anything* with an "Eco" tag on it?

I had a look at the link provided. It didn't say that much so I went to where some figures were provided. Down at the bottom of that page are four histograms (if you can't read them because they are so small download the pdf) which provide the "data" the comparisons are based on. What I find interesting is just where the Ecodesign limit lines are placed. Where the Ecodesign stoves do better (whatever that may mean) than the open fire and old stove the limit line is placed above it and below them. Now have a look at the NOx histogram on the bottom right. The Ecodesign stove is actually worse than the older stove! So where is the limit line placed? Above all of them - even the open fire. Anyone know why the limits are placed where they are? Is there an EC Directive for them?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the latest kerfuffle with diesel engines to do with high levels of NOx pollution they produce? Lucky we aren't running cars fuelled by Ecodesign stoves, eh?

[Andy Burns]

Ecodesign is a broad EC project, it's been the reason for phasing out incandescent lamps, low powered hoovers, expensive 'intelligent' central heating pumps, etc ... woodburners are just the next thing in their sights, along with kettles, hairdryers etc.

[The Natural Philosopher]

How to make all old kit obsolescent by regulation.

Ther is a vacuum cleaner called a Henry. It is exactly what a vacuum cleaner is supposed to be. A creator of a vacuum, enough tips to suck effectively on any surface, and a bag to hold the shit in. It has a reliable easy to use cable storage built in too.

It costs less than half ant advertised make of vacuum cleaner and lasts forever. Parts are available cheaply to fix it.,

How else can you render it obsolete than by declaring it has a more powerful motor than it should have?

EU regulation is not about improving anything more than the profits of manufacturers whose products have already saturated the market.

[Huge]

< The proper approach

Can we just ban authoritarian knobs like you?

[damduck-egg]

What would you define as a small community?

20 or so new age traveler types living in Yurts in a Welsh wood or the typical village and its surrounds of between 1500 to 5000 people that are dotted around Britain. I live in one of the latter and the main fuel choice is electric, bottled gas or oil. Electric as primary heating is expensive despite what those bordering on con artists suppliers of German storage heaters say, the equipment of the latter two all most always needs a source of electric for them to work so for me I have a wood burner that is not dependent on electric supplied by overhead lines that are more prone to damage from storms than underground supplies in most towns and cities. The wood burner also supplies our hot water and it quite often is used for a stew or similar meals as well, and most tea and coffee hot water is heated on it.

I'd be quite annoyed if areas like this came under your "ban" as it would mean getting in oil or LPG with all the gubbins that involves and running a generator if the mains fails to keep the controls working. Now if you just mean the trendies in Islington and Hoxton who are putting them in as a feature to show off then I may agree they are an affectation but I'm still uneasy with the cry" ban it" because people don't like something that others do. It is heard too often nowadays. They will go out of fashion quick enough when the cheap labour source to provide house cleaners dries up post Brexit and the trendies have to empty their own ash.

G.Harman

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It phased out low powered Hoovers, did it? Incandescent bulbs? Very odd I can still buy the latter.

You really really really shouldn't believe everything you read in the Mail.

And you might also explain why forcing makers to improve the efficiency of their products is a bad thing.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Old kit becomes obsolescent naturally. Anyone still using a 405 line VHF TV? No? Was that because of the EU?

No matter how often you tell a lie doesn't make it true

[John Rumm]

How does requiring the next one sold to be less powerful render the one sat in your cupboard obsolete? If anything it seems more likely to make you want to hang on to the one you have.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well its all si kology innit?

The smart meter shows you using MORE LECCY so you get guilty becoz eny fule know its all climb it seance innit? So coz its wet an rayney you take missus and kidz to the mall and she says 'look, jenny's got one like that, its reely green' and once you realise its not the backside of the overwight sales assitant, you have bough a dye soon before you know it Even though its actually purple..

But the missus is smart and listens to the Beebeecee and reads the garjan and has a degree in sumfing or ovver she got from Pudley Uni, so thats that innit?

>

[dennis]

You do know that henry vacs haven't been rendered obsolete by any EU regulations? Do you want to reconsider your case and point out something real rather than a figment of your mind?

Yes dear you would want people to think that as a justification for your brexit.

[tabbypurr]

When it comes time to resell old now non-compliant goods generally you can't. It's removed from the marketplace by law.

NT

[dennis]

TNP is trying to tell lies but he isn't very good at it. He also ignores that the regulations on vacs limit the power and require there to be more suction so making vacs perform better. He also keeps using henry vacs when they haven't been banned at all.

He is really worried that the EU is bad message is starting to look old.

[Weatherlawyer]

Air quality is important to all of us. Even though wood burning stoves are a relatively low source of emissions, the SIA feel it is important to reduce emissions from wood burning stoves even further.

Why?

It is as corrupt as any shit gets. These are the same people who are murdering Syrians thae same ones murdering rwandans and nigerians in the dark ages few decades earlier.

What advantages?

[Weatherlawyer]

The proper approach

Yes f*ck other people for the greater good or just to f*ck them.

[Weatherlawyer]

Really?

Or really stooopid? Passing through, passing through ...

I was at Franklin Roosevelt's side on the night that he died. He said, "one world must come out of world war two" (ah, the fool.) "Yankee, Russian, white or tan," "you have a chipped log on you shoulders man. Like the smoke between your chimneys but it is only passing through."

[Dave Plowman (News)]

At least you've finally admitted they are both bizarre.