Ot: Or not. tower fire...

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 09:12:41 on Sat, 17 Jun

2017, RJH remarked:

Isn't the TMO the landlord in this kind of outsourcing of social housing?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at

00:15:34 on Sat, 17 Jun 2017, Clive George remarked:

Actually, you can't compare the cost of cladding/sprinkling etc just one block. You have to add up the cost of doing all such blocks in the country, because you don't know in advance which one will be the site of a fire.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 03:06:05 on Sat, 17 Jun

2017, RJH remarked:

If the building is "off the books" at the Council, having outsourced to a TMO, isn't it the latter (without such deep pockets) which has to make that decision.

Near where I live the District Council had an outdoor activity centre, which was outsourced (rather than close due to the council not having the money to maintain it) which burnt down. It was uninsured and so has apparently closed for good.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

now moving into the "I live/lived in a clad high flat want own front and back door" phase

[Tim Streater]

And I wouldn't have it any other way. Otherwise any armchair pundit can demand changes that don't make a scrap of difference. I expect a council to spend its money in a way that saves the most lives, reduces as many injuries as possible, not just listen to the squeaky wheel.

In our old village, the main through road went over a X-roads near one end of the village, and a bloke who lived near the corner was always whinging about how dangerous it was. In the 15 years I lived there not

75 yards from that junction, there was not a single accident.

[Capitol]

I wonder how many commercial building use this stuff and how many new builds? Locally I can see a refurb office block!

[Capitol]

WE are like Venezuala, we're just not realising it yet.

[Andy Burns]

And doing it within the short period that everyone will now be calling for, rather than having done it gradually as they were refurbed over the last decade or so.

[Andy Burns]

And the flames from the PE will burn away the PIR foam, generating huge volumes of nasty smoke ... would the alu get hot enough to burn, or would it have melted and fallen away before then?

[Andy Burns]

Yeah, that was a bit harsh, considering some of them only survived because they were out of the tower doing midnight-shift cleaning jobs.

[RJH]

No, I wouldn't have thought so, because K&C are responsible for the structure of the buildings and have ownership.

It'd be an interesting accounting question, though, as premiums should come out of revenue. When I actually knew something about all of this,

10+ years back, the landlord would usually have a sinking fund for such contingencies.

I'd guess that's a Council call. Morally, perhaps, it should be reinstated, but if the DC felt there was no need, or the costs are too great for any benefit (most likely), they might not bother.

It's an interesting example of how local services and communities can become reshaped. Already, the Grenfell residents are concerned that they will be offered housing well out of the borough. For good reason - K&C have form here.

[charles]

It's the different treatment I object to. If a company has an accident involving H&S, people end up in court. If there's a highway accident because of say "bad road design" nobody even gets slapped on the wrista.

At least at the next village to us, an "Armco" barrier was put in front of a cottage on a bend. But I think it took 3 cars in the owner's front room before the council did anything.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes - there will be lots trying to throw in red herrings. Saw someone trying to blame the new Labour MP for K&C because she has sat on the housing committee of K&C council while a councillor. On a council which has been Tory controlled since the early '60s. And Khan has also been blamed by some.

But just standard Tory tactics. No matter how they f**k up, it is the fault of Labour.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It's going to cost many a lot. Insurers as well as taxpayers. And gawd knows how much an enquiry will cost. Those appointed don't work for free.

[Andy Burns]

Radio call-in shows are full of them at the moment

Asking for the prosecution of "the MPs who voted for the grenfell plans"

Asking for the fire service to have "$300 landing mats that can safely catch a person jumping from 50 stories high"

One that *might* be helpful instead of the stay put policy is to "provide smoke hoods for residents of other towers"

[Andy Burns]

I think Sadiq Khan is right to call for some "interim findings" from the inquiry before the end of summer, as it's sure to drag on for years before its eventual conclusion.

[newshound]

I thought that after I posted. In department stores I assume they have the capacity to flood quite a large area, I guess the default for (concrete) flats would be to assume that containment limits the demand to a small number of units.

Power stations have impressive high pressure systems to control lubricating oil fires. They also tend to have ready access to a *lot* of water (of various qualities).

[Huge]

Ditto social media.

Anyone who's ever dealt with the general public will know that's a complete non-starter. Any solution has to be vandal-proof, theft-proof and capable of being operated in the pitch dark by a stoned/drunk idiot in a panic.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Probably not. Everything that can be privatized has been? After all making a fast buck is far more important than making sure things are done properly.

[Andrew]

Because EU CO2-reduction bollocks, supersedes *everything*.

And approved doc B is way behind the times, so legally fire officers and building control are in a weak position.