Last month ( mid June ) I had applied Seven dust to my grapevine
due to Japanese Beatle infestation. I applied by hand ( gloved ).
I grabbed a handfull at a time and just tossed it across the whole
of the foliage and grape clusters. Here it is mid July and I still
see some rather rich deposits of the dust sitting on the clusters.
As these grapes ( type unknown ) are reaching ripeness they will
no doubt be harvested within the next 2 weeks to make wine. Will
the residual Seven dust pose any health threats at this point ? I've
tried rinsing with a garden hose but to no avail. It is rather "caked"
in some areas. There might have been some moisture on the grapes
when I slung the seven dust causing it to do so.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:46:21 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"
Don't belive most of this "safe" to eat after a month...etc. Sevin is
a material which can penetrate the walls of cells and remain in the
tissue of the fruit. I would not eat one grape on those vines. Do
what you want, but I don't think you can wash out any sustemic uptake
I believe the normal time before harvest is seven
days - BUT - you put on a heavy dose AND on the
fruit. I would call the manufacturer and ask
them. You might also consider getting a back
In the future, consider Imidan. It is suppose to
be more friendly to beneficals and it will kill
the beatles. Also, the beatles do not eat the
fruit so there really is no need to use the seven
on them. I only use pesticides on the fruit if I
see a heavy infestation of the Grape Berry Moths.
The beatles eat the youngest shoots at the top of
the canopy, not the older leaves or the fruit.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:22:28 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
Yes. But I was hoping that a 6 week duration might be long enough for
the dust to break down in toxicity. My neighbor puts the stuff on all her
greens ( collard, cabbage, turnip etc ). She pounces it on with an old
nylon stocking. In fact, she does the same with her corn (at the silk
end of the ear just as soon as soon as silk appears).
I know one thing. I'll never use Sevin on my grapes again. I used to
use a Pyrethrin based pesticide ( Tiger Brand ) but haven't seen it at
the store this year. It breaks down rather quickly and most veggies can
be ingested within a week after it's use. The Sevin was given to me
and I tried it. I made a mistake. All I want to know now is ( and I
thought that was clear ) has enough time passed to degrade the dust
enough or would it still be hazardous ( ... and would washing them be
of any use ) .
In two weeks I will pick said grapes. I will attempt to wash the bunches
by hand. Depending of that outcome, I will either prepare them for wine
or if washing doesn't seem to remove the residue I will trash those
bunches that won't wash clean.
You got to be kidding. Have people still not learned to have more respect
for the environment and themselves?
As someone else pointed out, the grapes will have absorbed the Sevin.
No way would I ever eat them or use them in wine.
Sounds like that was a really expensive gift you got.
Japanese beetles are easily knocked into a bowl of water to drown and sure
when they're at peak you have to do it every day but it still beats poison.
Unless you never drink wine, there is a VERY high
probability that you have drunk wine that was
grown using Sevin or Carbaryl 80 WP (liquid
I have a backyard vineyard of 110 vines. I will
give you a glass of wine each time you come out
and drown them for me :-). I know a lot of
commercial vineyards around here that will make
you the same offer.
Eeeeeh. The good
web site - http://www.kenwoodvineyards.com /
WE'RE CERTIFIED ORGANIC! March 14, 1996
Three of Kenwood's vineyards are certified organic: Kenwood
Estate Vineyard, Yulupa Vineyard, and Upper Weise
Kenwood wines are bottled they are in a range of twenty-five to
thirty-five parts per million free sulfites.
There is a lot of mis-information in this thread, so I created an
Sevin is a certified Organic pesticide. It can be applied up to 7
days pre harvest. It is easily washed from fruit.
Here's a list of other certified organic pesticides.
Here are the application guides from New York
Changed the header again.
Poison is poison. Recognition of the web of life vs. being apart or
Yeah, I liked that bit about everyone else being so ignorant that the
"correct" reply requried a separate header -- followed by stuff straight
from the vendors' "toxins are good!" literature.
An organic gardener will never use Carbaryl no matter the brand name. I'm
willing to stay open minded about its dangers or safety -- the evidence is
not in its favor but all things are relative. The Tercyl brand (active
ingredient Carbaryl) it is classified a class 1 toxin, and in Sevin, with
less active ingredient, it is a class 2 toxin; and it becomes a Class 3
toxin for some other brands which have barely any active ingredient at
all. It's toxic in every case with many high-dosage problems and fewer
(but still serious) low exposure risks.
But whether or not the "last word" on the topic ever comes available, the
main thing is that putting "organic" on a toxin doesn't mean organic
gardeners would use it, no more than they'd slather aresenic on
everything, which'd be perfectly "organic" to do. Sevin will kill
beneficial insects, destroy the natural balance, and insure the return of
harmful insects while the beneficial will be slower to recover.
Carbaryl might LEGALLY be used in organic produce fields but those sort of
regulations are never about the best thing for the environment -- they're
about how much you can get away with in a one-species commercial crop to
maximize harvests and still sell the product at the higher price as
organic. Organic gardening is about achieving a healthful balance that
does away with even needing toxins, such as can't seriously be achieved in
a one-species crop but certainly can be achieved in a balanced
multi-species garden for which nature becomes an aid and not a hindrance.
The ACTUAL organic method of treating Japanese beetles for a specific
example is to increase the entomopathogenic nematode and milky spore
population in the soil, following label instructions very narrowly as the
desireable microorganisms may not take hold if applied to soil willynilly
under less than favorable conditions. These require very specific season
and weather conditions to take hold, but once they do, the nematodes will
take care of the grubs of a great many harmful species, and the milkly
spoor will be a permanent fix that gets the Japanese beetle grubs
specifically (it effects no other species at all). Japanese beetles will
never recur, as they will when using pesticides like carbaryl which merely
start the endless cycle of pesticide dependence.
The beneficial microorganism route is unbeatable, but it's not instant,
and in the meantime, while waiting two years for milky spore to take care
of Japanese beetles completely, the subsidiary organic methods begin with
hand-removal when the insects are active on plants (they're great to feed
a pet lizard or pixi frog or laying hens or ciclids such as an oscar).
Planting something they love to distraction, like a Rose of Sharon or a
dwarf crabapple in a very warm/sunny spot, centralizes the
beetle-plucking. Further assistance can be from the parastic wasps Tiphia
vernalis or T. popilliavora which get the beetle eggs, available from a
number of companies and which some neighborhoods join forces to obtain for
an entire block.
Traps can also be placed about for the adult beetles, which some field
studies show take care of as many as three-fourths of the adult beetles in
June and August, and work best at garden peripheries away from plants as
they effectively draw the beetles out of the garden (whereas placed IN the
garden the traps may draw adults from your neighbor's yard and a third or
a fourth of those will get side-tracked by cool plants; also there'll be
so many beetles in the traps that they'll stink of decomposing insects).
In the main, the microorganism route, with some hand-plucking until it
takes hold, is all a garden demands to stay fully organic. And the best
part is that works way better than carbaryl or any other toxin one might
-paghat the ratgirl
visit my temperate gardening website:
On Jul 23, 5:55 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org (paghat) wrote:
OK, just so we are clear on this...I am NOT an organic gardener, I use
chemical ferts all the time, but I do not use Sevin or any of its
derivatives or any any other herbicide or pesticide on my garden or
lawn. Yeah I have crabgrass and other damn things I cannot name- but
when I give my daughter a cherry tomato, I know it's not been dosed
with some damn crap.
Good for you, that is the first step but pesticides come from the
same petroleum base as the chem ferts. Your cherry tomatoes are
more nutritious without the pesticides and healthier without their
residues. Additionally, the easily accessible nitrogen from chem
ferts is quickly transported and concentrated in the leaves of
your crops, which and makes them desirable to insects. The quality
of your crops will be similar to what you would get from
The next step is to grow your soil to grow your plants. Chem ferts
are salts and damage the food chains (webs, whatever) in the soil.
There is a symbiotic relationship between the flora and fauna in
the garden soil and the plants that you cultivate which makes for
more nutritious and healthier plants. If you already see a half
dozen worms in a shovel full of soil, your garden is in good shape
and you can keep it that way with alfalfa mulches, green manures
(plants), and cover crops.
This is utter bullcrap. When tried, they quickly fly away only to come back
in 10 to 15 minutes and pick up where they left off. If one or two end up in
the bowl of water you're lucky. And try that when there are hundreds of
Really? I've used a mason jar or mayo jar with 1/2" of water in the
bottom and a drop or two of dishwashing liquid. Maybe one out of 20
will fly away, but most will drop into the soapy water. I can easily
catch 100 beetles in less than 15 minutes. Milky spore is a complete
waste of money.
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