#uck'in Idiots and toxic dust :-(

Mother has got safety ignorant Indian cowboys in to replace an asbestos cement garage roof. Method of removal of the old roof is hammers and smashing it all to pieces, dry, no mask or overall protection & dust everywhere.
Should I call H&S?
Should they all start making wills?
How long should she wait for the dust to settle before entering the place?
:-(((
--
Adrian C

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http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/regulations.htm
Yes - for the sake of the poor saps getting regular work exposure, and likely to have serious health problems years down the line.
Are they paying for proper, legal disposal of asbestos?
Are you aware that you are likely to be committing an offence by knowingly contracting someone to work like this?
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On 07/03/2011 10:59, snipped-for-privacy@gglz.com wrote:

Yes, the knowingly bit unfortunately came *after* their stupid act was done. I'm calling H&S...
Er, "committing an offence" - they can lock up my mum, fine by me.
--
Adrian C


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"Sporadic and low intensity, guv'nor" is the favoured form of words for fending off the bowler hat.
That, and placing the air sampler well _upwind_ of the job site.
"Air sampler". I crack myself up. As if.
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Any particular reason to replace it? Did it need fixing, or was it being removed because asbestos is "too dangerous to leave in place".

Hammering it is fortunately a bit less troublesome than disk cutting it - or even for that matter, pressure-washing the moss off it.
I wouldn't panic, but I would try to encourage safe practice from now on, a cleanup of the mess they've made so far, and having _their_ lungs doing it. Also check where the stuff is eventually being disposed of, as they sound like the sort of people who'd be fly- tipping it under the nearest hedge.
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In 07/03/2011 12:16, Andy Dingley wrote:

beyond fixing, leaks and holes where a neighbours chimney once fell through.

In the end, It'll be me.
Her negoitating skills are not that strong, I can imagine them pulling one and leaving a half done cleanup... :-(
--
Adrian C

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Adrian C wrote:

That depends on her life expectancy. If it's less than 25 years she won't die from the asbestos. Her neighbours may, of course, though. She's nowhere near the N2 postcode, I hope?
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Skipweasel wrote:

I'm curious as to how you are supposed to do this? Water sprays to keep it all damped down? Or do you paint over it all before you start? In which case, what about cut edges? I'm assuming here that it's not possible on a roof to seal the whole area off completely.
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snipped-for-privacy@microsoft.com says...

Well, since it was only a single storey building, IIRC they built a tent over the whole affected fascia and took it down like that.
--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

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On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:08:30 -0000, Skipweasel wrote:

Yep build a scaffold to enclose the entire structure, double cover that with polythene, fit air locks and a negative pressure system. Everything is double bagged inside the containment.
Bit OTT for an asbestos cement roof which is probably white asbestos and relatively safe compared to blue or brown. Bashing it up with hammers or angle grinding into manageable bits with no attempt at dust control or breathing protection is at the other extreme though.
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Dave Liquorice wrote:

Doing that to the outside of a school, though, how do you get the inside clean enough to put kids in?
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snipped-for-privacy@microsoft.com says...

They came along with stickytape and took samples of dust from all over the place before declaring it safe.
--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

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snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com says...

This is insulation contained within a (previously) sealed void.
--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

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On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:42:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"

It is asbestos cement - it can be removed without any particular precautions other than minimising dust by wetting it well. It does not require a licenced asbestos fraudster to do the job.
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On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 22:24:07 +0000, Peter Parry wrote:

I'd agree with that. There is a lot of FUD surrounding asbestos. Yes, it can be nasty stuff, documented cases of people going down with asbestosis or related lung disease 50 years after a single 15 minute exposure to low levels. But that would almost certainly be blue or brown asbestos not white that is commonly found in asbestos cement.
The average handyman is probably more at risk from the dust produced by machine MDF or hard woods.
--
Cheers
Dave.




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On 07/03/2011 22:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:

<snip>
Ill agree about the FUD. Those documented cases - do you have a link? Or is it just a case of "Well they must have been exposed to Asbestos or they wouldn't be ill"?
I'm sure most builders won't remember exactly what was in that building they knocked down 15 years ago.
Andy
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On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:29:19 +0000, Andy Champ wrote:

Ah, TV documntaries I think. B-) But ceratinly not builders or others routinely exposed to asbestos. Just people on a visit to a place that had asbestos in the air at the time of their visit.

Pretty sure that some forms of lung disease only have one cause...
--
Cheers
Dave.




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On 08/03/2011 21:12, Dave Liquorice wrote:

That's possibly true. But how do you prove it? Say 90% of all cases are in people who smoked. And the other 10% are in people who have been exposed to smoke (or asbestos). You can't really tell whether some of the cases were associated with something else, because of the strong smoke (or asbestos!) effect on the disease.
Andy
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You can't with lung diseases, but you can with mesothelioma. There's really nothing much else that causes it.
Legally there's no requirement to prove that asbestos caused a condition anyway. The legal test is that it _probably_ caused it, which is accepted as being proven if the exposure caused at least a doubling of risk (sounds low, but actually it makes statistical sense). A doubling of risk is not an epidemiologically serious increase in risk - in most studies of rare conditions with small sample groups it's hard to demonstrate significance - but it can be enough to show cause.
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On 10/03/2011 00:24, Andy Dingley wrote:

Again, how do you know?
BTW it says here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesothelioma
Mesothelioma can be associated with glass dust.

As you say, much easier to prove. The odd 1% error in the numbers is then unimportant.
Andy
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