Don't ever say never. A lot if not most of the
vineyards around here (Northern Virginia /
Central Maryland Area - including other areas in
the Mid Atlantic) use Sevin on their vineyards.
Most commercial growers apply with an air blast
sprayer so it goes EVERYWHERE. The concentration
you used sounds excessive. I still recommend you
contact the manufacturer and see what they say.
I would still say you can use it (the sevin you
mix with water) and spray the top of your canopy
with a back pack sprayer.
What kind of grapes are you growing and where do
you live? The earliest any grapes are ready for
harvest around here are some of the whites and
some of them are ready around the 2nd week in
September. The reds usually are harvested around
the end of September with Merlot being the first.
The Cabernet Sauvignon hang until mid to late
October. I am saying all this because you may
have a variety than can hang longer and thus let
nature wash off some of the residue.
There is one other option. You can go ahead and
harvest, crush and make your wine and send it out
to a lab and have them analyze it for you. They
may even be able to tell you in advance what they
would recommend without even testing it and
charging you. Virginia Tech has a enology
program and a lab. You may want to give them a
call and state your problem.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:05:43 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"
There is no telling how long the active particles which entered the
cells will persist. It's not a matter of washing off what you can see
as dust or powder on the grapes themselves. Sevin can enter cells and
if it were me, which it wouldn't be due to the nature of my no
pesticides at all, I would not eat or use the grapes for anything.
A little story:
My neighbor had breast cancer and was a nine year survivor. She
planted some Mountain Laurels and bag worms appeared. If she asked me
first I'd have told her to use a simple pathogen called Bt. No harm
to anything but the worms.
However, her other neighbor who is an "agronimist" gave her Sevin in a
pump up sprayer. She read no label, and had no idea about what she
was spraying. She did not have her legs or arms covered and she
started to burn terribly and she jumped into my pool to get rid of
the stinging. Not one year later she relapsed and is now in stage
four, metasticized breast cancer, spread to her sternum and the lining
of her lungs. She goes to M.D. Anderson in Houston for treatment. She
hangs on by a thread. Did the Sevin do it? I don't know. However, I
will never use it. I'd give up the grapes and put them in the trash
so not even animals can eat them.
Your story about the neighbor getting burned has nothing to do with this
issue. Your neighbor did not take the proper precautions to cover
herself, and use a breathing mask.
The issue here is one of retention of the chemical. You have given no
evidence of your theory that Sevin penetrates the skin of the grape. I
don't believe that. Waiting several weeks after application should
elimanate the danger. The Sun and rain will burn and wash off the
chemical, plus it will naturally lose it's toxicity. He should check
with the manufacturers for confirmation, but I think he is ok with
Sevin. He can wash the fruit as he said to be extra sure.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father,
complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the
vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did.
If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your
sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself.
You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like
this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than
a flyswatter as a pesticide.
You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration,
with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it.
How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one
of the herbicides? Or flour?
Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
It would seem an almost unanimous decision and opinion here that you
chuck the grapes you applied a very toxic poison to. Sevin is
advertised using lies, lies and more lies and people have been
gardening for decades, some professionally, some avidly, some used to
use these pesticides who no longer use them because they found out the
truth about them over the years.
Constructive as I can be without crawling on my hands and knees
Do NOT use these tainted grapes. Chalk it up to a big mistake,
mostly your money. they certainly don't care if the food is
safe to eat or if the product poisons water or soil. profit is
the sole motive. if you choose to give them more profit,
that's your business, but keep your nasty poisoned food away
(far away) from me & my farm. thanks.
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, Paul E. Lehmann
I did, Dippy, in my first post. If you're going to use a pesticide, make sure
you follow the label directions. No label. Mason jar.
This is playing chemical Russian Roulette.
And it's a violation of US federal law. And if this wasn't in the US, then
it's likely to have violated the laws of most other countries.
Not to mention the law of common sense: you don't keep toxic materials
in a food container. Especially not an unlabeled food container.
Learn from your mistakes. If you can.
You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see
it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop,
1. Make sure it has a label
2. Read the label, so you know the concentration,
3. Read the instructions, so that you:
4. Know how to apply it.
Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you
deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge
about it. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place
where someone can make everything ok.
Please tell me HOW I screwed up by advising the OP
1) talk to the folks at Virginia Tech and possibly
submit a sample for their lab to analyze
2) talk to his county agriculture agent and or to
3) get information from the manufacturer.
Some county agriculture agencies have programs for
certification and education on the use of
pesticides and fungicides.
My advice was to get the FACTS and was NOT based
on some knee jerk reaction like those you
OK.. You're 100% correct. I goofed - f'd up - etc.
Checking with the fellow who gave me the dust - Sevin-5%. Being is
he is 85 yo and farmed all his life, when he said to toss the stuff, I
did as he suggested.
I have written to gardentech.com ( the makers of Sevin-5 ) and am
waiting for a reply. I checked with my neighbor who uses the stuff and
read the instructions on the back and of course it said to use
appropriet dispenser. It also said that the preharvest interval was 7
days for grapes. Looking through www.gardentech.com/sevin_fastfacts.asp
Q : How does Sevin control insects?
A: Sevin has a dual mode-of-action - it works on contact and through
ingestion. Sevin is non-systemic, which means it does not penetrate
plant tissue - it stays on the outside. After controlling the
targeted pest, Sevin is easily broken down in the environment.
I know, I know now - day late an' a buck short... I should have done
the necessary reading ahead of time etc. And I should have told Mr Red "
Just toss it on - are you crazy ol' man! - do you know how them posters
will growl if I don't take all precautions and need advice because I
didn't follow instructions and protocol..."
I've used newsgroups in one form or other since DEC-NOTES. I can
honestly say that I never did pick apart everything a poster wrote that
I found fault with. If I couldn't offer some form of suggestion or help,
I move on to the next post. And then I remember the flame wars that
started taking place - people who just loved to tear everything apart and
find fault. Mispelled words, improper grammar, you name it - not having
a damned thing to do with the posters original query. Pre-spam spammers.
But it's ok. Take what I need - leave the rest. And I am not referring to
your own reply, there was useful input offered. Thank you - it will help
in the future - but really did not focus on my query - grapes good or bad
now that I f'd up.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:34:46 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"
Sheesh.....besides poisoning our world, you are too effing careless to
effectively use even a sockpuppet, Ima Paul Dudley Goodguy.
I'm sure as hell glad you aren't my neighbor, Poisoner of Bees,
Spiders, Butterflies and Other Helpful and Harmless Living
Creatures.....such as your Neighbors!!
Get a life, Charlie. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice or
join the ranks of the "holier than thou" For
example, there are a LOT of bee keepers who use
chemicals every bit as risky as the OP used.
Has ANY one of you doom and gloomers ever given
the advice such as CONTACT YOUR LOCAL
AGRICULTURE EXTENSION AGENT and ask for THEIR
advice and opinion. Of course not. You have
your own agenda.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:09:58 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
Yawn...OK, I will...join the ranks of the holier than thou, that is.
And sorry to say, Paul, I'll post as I see fit, according to my
"agenda" and not according to your demands. I also intend to keep my
life and help my grandchildren keep theirs by doing what I can to keep
morons from contaminating their food with poison.
Golly, I guess that makes it just hunky-dory okie-dokie to spread
poison about the planet. Thanks for the heads up and the excellant
argument justifying the use of such, Paul.
Tell me, how do you feel about irradiated food? :-)
I gots me all sorts of them kinds of questions I would like to ponder
you head with, but I thinks I gots yer number already, son. ;-)
"I'm from the gummint and I am here to help you".....uh huh, oh yeah!
They do have some good plans for hogsheds, though.
This statement of yours shows your lack of understanding or care about
such things as three-legged frogs and declining bird populations and
cancers and all sorts of funky shit that is happening on account of,
well, you know. But I didn't get this information from monsatano or
dow or bayer or any of their front guys, like the usda and fda
and....so I guess it is just doom and gloom bullshit.
Yep, that agenda being the speaking out about the use of toxins that
contribute to the toxically over-burdened planet and that contribute to
the bodily toxic load we and our children and grandchildren must suffer
on account of the ignorance and greed of people such as yourself and
the sockpuppet and all the minions of the agrochemical cartel who
advocate the use of toxins.
Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl?
Doom, Doom, Doom....can you hear the drums, Paul?
"You just caught me on a good night. I'm doing what I was made to do -
and I've got a feeling I'm going to do it even better this time"
- Captain Billy Tyne
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