New drivers

[Peter Parry]

Now in the good old days of carbon clutch release bearings..........

[PeterC]

Coward/bully.

[PeterC]

Years ago I asked a driving instructor friend about this; also about giving some idea of momentum, friction uder various conditions etc., all of which and more were instilled into me by my father before I was 8 yo. She told me that none of this was allowed and basically it was all about handling the car and the other traffic - no roadcraft, elementary science or anything.

Last time I drove I got around 50% more out of the fuel than 3 'experts' suggested for the vehicle and did a mixed 140 miles using the brakes only a few times.

[PeterC]

Brake lights indicate that red lights are on, nothing else (same as 'indicators' - often left on or counter to the change of direction). Slowing down on the clutch gives a proportional and infallible indication of acceleration.

[Norman Billingham]

Not so new. When I was preparing for the advanced test in 1965, my instructor who was Hendon police trained, taught me that the brakes are used for slowing the car and that going down through the gears is wrong. His argument again was that drive trains are expensive and brakes are cheap. Brake fade hasn?t been a problem for modern hydraulic braking systems in any normal UK conditions for a long time.

[fred]

ISTR the Met Police Handbook recommended being in the right gear, at the right speed, at the right time.

ISTR dipping the clutch whilst using the brakes (not obviously when coming to a stop) was a fail in the driving test.

Using the gears to assist (not replace brakes) leaves one in better control of the car.

The automatic gearbox in my 7 series can be felt changing down as the speed reduces under braking.

The idea of slipping a car into neutral and applying the handbrake is anti-deluvian IMHO. It infuriates me to sit at traffic light behind one of those onanists.

Lights go green. Wow ! Wasn't expecting that. What do I do now ? Oh yes. Put it in gear.Starts to fumble for first gear. Starts to fumble for hand brake.

Streuth.

Spare me.

Paul Mc Cann

[Huge]

I suggest you learn to drive.

Precisely.

Although it does wear the release bearing.

[Davey]

You mean shortening the wheelbase, not the vehicle, surely?

[Pete Shew]

Or commonly - manoeuvre, signal.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Depends on the amount of 'creep'. Is it a new car - and is the idle speed correct?

[charles]

agreed that brake fade could be caused by overheating the hydraulic fluid, but more commonly it was the linings that lost their frictional properties when hot.

[Chris Bartram]

Engine braking does not equal clutch wear.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Unless you synchronise the engine speed *exactly* when changing down, it does. And very very few do these days. It also means wear on the gearbox - like say to the synchromesh clutches. Unless you double de-clutch perfectly.

The most economical way is to anticipate stopping and let the inherent friction do the job. Where you can. Unless you have some form of re-generative braking.

[Derek Geldard]

I'm sure I would have noticed if they'd removed a 2 cms slice from the body between the 2 axles, so yes, that must be it.

Derek G

[Roger Chapman]

As (typically seen on motorways) when the driver who has just barged into your lane in front of you far too close for comfort and without any prior warning eventually returns to the lane from whence he/she came.

Incidentally when I learnt to drive some 50 years ago I was taught that a signal indicated a wish to carry out some manoeuvre, not that the driver was/was about to carry out some manoeuvre regardless of his/her right of way or, indeed, that they had just successfully carried out said manoeuvre.

[Huge]

Quite.

[Roger Chapman]

You're the wanker, but thanks for telling us anyway.

Why don't you or they pay attention to the lights. There is enough time as the lights change through amber to green to get the handbrake off and the car moving.

So you sit there for what could be several minutes with one foot on the brake and the other on the clutch just so you can jump the lights, not caring that if you have been braking with the same enthusiasm as you leap away from the lights you are probably warping your disks as they differentially cool while the brakes are on and the car is stationary.

[David WE Roberts]

On older automatics you can change down using the shifter. I used to anyway because the box was so slow and dumb. I have given up on my latest auto because the brakes and the gearbox are so good. Takes a lot of the fun away, though.

[Andy Dingley]

No - it means the infinitesimal wear of using the clutch plate to bring the engine rotating mass to a matching speed, then using the engine as an air pump retarder, rather than a false assumption that the engine speed is fixed and you're trying to decelerate the car to match that.

In the 1980s there was a little-used semi-auto gearbox called the Maxwell, with one clutch (of 4) per ratio, They never took off en masse, but they were used successfully for buses. Although these were admittedly wet clutches, it also had the unusual feature that you could engage 1st & 2nd simultaneously, to act as a hydraulic retarder. This is a useful feature in bus and coach work, and not something that would be used if it accelerated clutch pack wear.

On a similar note, when did you last see a failed clutch release bearing? Since these went to ball races rather than carbon, I've never heard of a clutch problem caused by one.

[Andy Dingley]

I rather doubt it's an SD1 (unbalanced carbs on a Rover V8 were probably the worst cause of auto-box creep ever).

When did you last see a car, any car, with a modern ECU and active control of idle speed based on an absolute measure of rpm have an excessively high idle speed? There are lots of "limp home" modes that select a deliberately high idle speed, but it's just not a problem these days to see an idle speed that has crept up because the mixture is wrong, or there's a manifold leak.