electric cars and frosty roads

Exactly. And it shouldn't be. I've often thought that automatics should have a clutch pedal that is only used when setting off from rest, to give greater control than by controlling engine power alone.

Hill starts - surely you use the handbrake like you would in a manual. Or has that gone out of fashion with automatics that have torque converters and manuals that have hill-start assist which I presume is there for people who can't master the normal coordinated use of clutch, accelerator and handbrake.

well I have no problem switching after the first 2 minutes Same as coming off the ferry in France

My current auto has a button for handbrake. On or off. Nothing between

Doesn?t it auto-release for hill starts?

Tim

if stopped, the auto hold will keep the brakes on without brake pedal, the slightest feather of the accelerator or steering-wheel will cancel that, and then it'll gently creep forwards.

auto hold as above

likewise, though you do need left foot on brake to use launch control, I used it a few times on previous car, have resisted in this car so far.

tap gear knob to put transmission into "S" mode, will make it go down at least one gear.

Although I doubt I'll ever buy another manual, I sometimes drive other cars or rentals, so don't want to train my left foot into being a "braking foot"

How would it know

Computers. ;-). Probably some sort of torque sensing in the drivetrain but I?m guessing.

Every car with an electric handbrake that I?ve driven in the last 10 years has known. Mind you, these all had an ?auto-hold? feature. I guess your car predates this technology.

Tim

You may have some frustrated people behind you if you coasted to a halt!

Surely, one would think that it should act the same as the normal vehicle at least for the first few seconds. Sounds like a software fault. Brian

No just design the car to behave more like cars normally do. The snag is that effectively the mode engaged is not sensing the slippage. Braking the car by attempting to charge the battery sounds like a dangerous choice in any event. You want to remove drag from the wheels after all. Are you sure there is no kind of half way mode for this? Not that I drive but have read of clever things like this being used in electric cars, so might be worth asking the question in cast its a fault. Brian

I stopped on a hill in Tenerife in a rental with an electric handbrake. The car rolled a bit, and it wound the brake on hard. So far so good.

The lights went green, and I started. Except the brake was on so hard I stalled the engine, and dipped the clutch.

_Then_ it released the handbrake...

Andy

"Vir Campestris" snipped-for-privacy@invalid.invalid wrote in message news:rt2lkc$7s1$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

I would never trust an electric handbrake or a hill-start assist manual handbrake. I like a brake that I can apply and release instantaneously at the same point as I apply enough power and let the clutch start to bite. Hill starts are one of those three-limbed control issues which is hard to describe to a learner, but once learned it's instinctive. I learned on my mum's Renault 6 which had the handbrake as an umbrella handle under the dashboard, and in warm weather then cable stretched a bit and the lever reached the upper limit of its end-stop before the cable was tight enough. On most gradients it was not a problem, but there was one steep uphill at traffic lights where it may not be strong enough to hold the car so I became adept at holding the car with enough engine and with the clutch rubbing just enough to counteract the car's tendency to roll backwards. But I suggested that she got the garage to tighten the cable a bit so the handbrake actually worked in all weathers and on all gradients. I still leave the car in gear (first if facing uphill, reverse if facing downhill) in case the handbrake creeps. The direction is important: you don't want the starter motor to propel the car *down* the hill if you forget to press the clutch when you start the engine; uphill is harder so there's less chance of hitting the car in front or behind. Mind you, I got into the habit of always waggling the gear lever before starting the engine or before letting the clutch up after stopping, to prove to myself that it's in neutral.

Your story about stalling at lights reminds me of a very embarrassing experience I once had. I was lead car, stopped at lights on an uphill gradient. Handbrake on. Into neutral. Lights went red+amber so I put the car in gear and started to let the clutch up. Suddenly the car lurched forwards and stalled - in gear. The clutch actuator mechanism had failed, letting the clutch in very quickly. And the weight of the car, acting through the wheels and gearbox, prevented me putting the car into neutral - the lever wouldn't shift. Several guys got out and tried to push my car uphill enough to release the tension on the selector mechanism, but the gradient was too steep. And at a quick test, the starter motor wasn't strong enough to propel the car clear of the lights.

No-one could get past. I felt very unpopular. Luckily, after working the pedal up and down, eventually the mechanism engaged with the clutch and released it. Finally I could put the car in neutral and roll back to the side of the road - once the cars behind had reversed a bit. There was a long queue of cars behind me by then :-(

Don't they have abs?

Been there. Done that. In my case it was mud on the road on a sharp bend. The sudden lurch as the wheels regained their grip was painful - but very welcome.

When it happened again in snow I had the presence of mind to straighten the wheels so they gripped how easily and were more likely to be braked by ABS.

On a car with regenerative braking that comes on as soon as you lift of the power (please tell me that feature can be disabled by the driver) I hope the ABS acts on the regen brakes as well as the frictional ones.

In article <w+ snipped-for-privacy@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Lamb snipped-for-privacy@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> writes

For torque convertor autos you assume correctly. To get any engine braking you have to force it down the gears, but not to 1st which will have an overrun to protect the drive train.

In article snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)" snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk> writes

None of mine ever have done that.

Not sure what ABS would make of all four wheels locked. It might not actually let that happen. How ever a four wheel skid without locked wheels...

Mine has a little lever switch, with a slight lag as the motors wind the brakes on or off. There is no abilty to balance clutch, accelerator and hand brake. On is also very ON, if you're moving even very slightly putting on the "hand brake" is like hitting a tree.

The handbook has dire warnings about applying the "hand brake" when moving above a few mph. IIRC it will apply the brake at a slightly reducesd rate but it'll still be pretty fierce and/or risk breaking things and/or losing control.

Possibly the same way it knows to release the parking brake when you want to set off with it engaged. ie in gear, clutch pressed and touch the acelerator.

Mines got "hill start assist", which works well enough but I haven't worked out what conditions need to be satisfied for it trigger hill start assist and hold the car whilst you move your foot from brake to go. Never quite sure if it's going to roll back or not so tend to give it enough go to "catch" any roll back...