Why? The questions weren't asked when he bought the house. If asked,
"It must be mine, it was there when I bought the house and no one has
ever told me otherwise." No lies. He's probably blown that argument
now, though. ;-)
On Friday, September 27, 2013 10:44:39 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
The part about "no one has ever told me otherwise" would be a lie.
He stated that a worker for the company was there couple days ago,
looked up the serial # of the tank on their database
and said that it shows up as being the tank
of Company X along his address as the location Company X was his the gas supplier to the former owner and has now been bought by the current company.
But otherwise, I think we're pretty much on the same page. No
need to go get a new tank, start asking too many questions, etc.
Just keep doing what he's been doing and see what, if anything happens
In general, I'm told on the legal groups that there is apparently a 3-year
statute of limitations on whether a commercial entity can sue me to take
back their property and that 3-year period apparently starts at the point
at which the original lease defaulted.
Since the house was bought months after the original owners left it,
I presume that 3-year period long ago expired.
I don't know if a UCC-1 (uniform commercial code?) was filed, nor whether
that extends that 3-year time period.
So, tomorrow (Monday), I'll call the California Secretary of State to
figure out how this works.
I'll report back, since this question appears to have been asked many
times, but never really answered definitively. It's all hearsay (from
me anyway) until I have actual facts.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 05:58:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The previous owner had to stop paying before I bought the
property, so it's at least 4.5 years ago.
I found out from this URL that a propane tank is NOT real property:
Propane tanks are personal property
I found an almost exact case described here but for MD:
It seems, based on that nice description, the title search
should have turned up any liens such as those that would
be found by the propane company filing a California UCC-1
And, I found this interesting article on abandoned property:
May I keep a propane tank that came with property bought when lease on tank had ended?
04/28/2011 - Abandoned Property - State: CA #24744
They quote California statutes: California Civil Code, Section 2080.1,
but, that says I have to give it to the sheriff, which is impractical.
So, the whole thing is confusing, at best.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:12:28 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
For the reasons stated here by Amerigas:
Basically I can save more than the cost of the tank
and maintenance simply by switching suppliers at will.
But, if I am to buy the tank, it's not clear based on my
research *who* owns that tank.
It could be Suburban Propane (who originally bought it).
Or the Heritage Group (who apparently thinks they bought it).
Or it could be Amerigas (who bought the Heritage Group).
Or, it could be me (who bought the house with the tank).
It could even be the title company, if they missed a lien
on the property that comes up later to bite me. :)
On Saturday, September 28, 2013 2:31:15 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
They did tell him without him asking. He said a service
guy was there to hook up a new grill and while there, he
looked up the serial # of the tank and told him it was
listed as being owned by the previous gas company, and
located at his address.
I agree. With the service guy having told him, I'd say
if he doesn't hear anything more in the next couple months,
he's probably OK for a long time. At some point, something
else, eg another service visit, etc might trigger some
action. I would think the most they would do is tell him
he has to start paying the $15/mth rental fee. At that
point, depending on the circumstances, he could offer to buy
the 10+ year old tank for a couple hundred bucks.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:18:54 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I called Debra Bowen, Secretary of State, whose office said
they only handle commercial transaction recordings. The
Secretary of State's office said I needed to call the
County Recorder's office.
Calling the County Recorder was like calling the DMV.
Nobody knew anything. Everyone was guessing. I was appalled.
Nonetheless, they told me (after I asked to speak with
numerous people) that they've never heard of a propane
company filling out paperwork with them for the lease or
ownership of a propane tank.
Still, they said the only way to know for sure would be
to stop by and do a personal search on their non-Internet
computers - so - of course - that's what I'll do.
But, based on my conversations with them, I'm not going
to hold my breath that there is any record of the prior
transaction with the county.
Do you have any other ideas for whom to ask in the
government to see what the typical process might be?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:31:52 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Yes. There is a $250 permit fee, but I spoke to that department
and they said they would never put down the serial number of
the tank as the owner is responsible and it's not a matter of
who owns the tank to them.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:54:27 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:
I guess it's like swapping out the regulators.
Or replacing the earthquake tie-down straps.
You wouldn't expect to get a new permit for that.
But I don't know how this permit stuff works so I'm just guessing
based on the fact the guy told me that they definitely do NOT write
down the serial number of the propane tank in the permit & inspection
On Monday, September 30, 2013 1:06:15 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:
I think your whole UCC form thing is a red herring. Filing
that form gives the party filing it MORE protection. I don't
see anything saying that if you don't file it, you relinquish
ownership to the property in question. It's just that with
a UCC form you have a better claim. Also, not sure a UCC
thing applies to a tank rental.
On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:41:44 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
He could try calling dear leader Obama. He knows everything
and is all about helping the common guy.
But, maybe there is no one there to help him today. The govt
appears to be shut down. Probably a good thing too. If Obama helps
Alex like he's helped so many with Obamacare, his propane price
will double, the cost of the tank will be $5K, he'll no longer
be able to keep his existing gas company and he'll be down
to a 29 hour work week. Unless he works for a company with about
53 employees. Then maybe he'll be one of the 4 with no job at all.
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