Just bought house with 1,000 gallon propane tank (is this normal?)

I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100 for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't know what they did).

I never had propane before. I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal. Is this normal stuff?

Reply to
M. Stradbury
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I have a 500 gal tank. They only fill mine to 80%. But they can not fill any tank to 100%. Even those 20lb tanks for your BBQ grill are only filled part way. In the sun, they expand, so if they were filled 100%, they would at least release gas, if not explode.

I dont know anything about your CA tax or what the Hazmat fee does. That's local to your area, I assume...

I'm charged for inspection too, and if the tank gets completely empty, they do it again, and charge me again. My fee is $50, and if you ask me, that's too much for spending 10 minutes looking at my pipes, tank, and regulator. They used to come indoors and light my furnace pilot light, but the last time they did that was years ago. They know I can light it, and I'm not always there when they deliver the gas. But they made me sign some disclaimer in order to light it myself, and they shut off the tank valve, so I have to turn it on. (Which makes sense because some things. like a gas range would release gas into the home is the pilot was not lit).

If I ONLY use propane, I have to get a fill mid winter. 500 gal is not enough for a whole winter for me. But I now use a pellet stove, and hope I can make it thru a winter on one tankful. This is my first year with that pellet stove, so I am not sure???

If I did not OWN my tank, it would cost me over $100 a year to lease a tank from them. I paid around $1000 for my tank about 8 years ago, so it's about paid for itself. Before that, I was leasing one from them, and because of that, I was limited to ONLY get my gas from that company. Now I can shop for the best price.

Your price per gallon is about 16 cents (per gal) lower than I paid last summer, but gasoline is way down now and LP (propane) is a petroleum product. I'd probably pay about the same as you now...

Two winters ago, propane was almost $5.00 a gallon. That hurt !!! (It had something to do with a shortage). That's what caused me to invest in the pellet stove.

Reply to
Paintedcow

Asking questions after the fact? Funny!

Reply to
Tony Hwang

I once lived in a city and just paid my gas bill for Natural Gas. When I moved to the country, I also was confused and somewhat intimidated by the propane company. I called and thought they would just install a tank and fill it. I quickly learned about the tank lease fee, other fees, and I had to buy a regulator (on the house), and other costs that I did not expect. And I was not allowed to install my own underground pipes, which would have saved me quite a bit.

I was also not aware that each and every time I let the tank get completely empty, that I would be charged for an inspection. I quickly learned to never let the tank go below 2%. Then I learned something else.... If the tank does go empty, DONT TELL THEM THAT AT THE OFFICE. The same guy always fills my tank, and he told me that if I dont tell them, he's not going to report me, or charge me for an inspection.... (A nice guy). However, they will fill the tank faster if I DO tell them it's empty. The BEST solution is to get it filled BEFORE it goes empty. Especially when it's very cold outdoors.

Reply to
Paintedcow

yeah, they don't fill it all the way up.

not too horrible a price. no idea what the hazmat fee might be for. ask them.

any time you run a tank out here it costs extra for inspection to make sure it didn't run out from a leak or whatever. IMO a scam regulation.

don't run it out! ask the previous owners or propane company for yearly records to see how much you might use and check the tank level periodically to make sure you don't run out...

sounds mostly routine.

songbird

Reply to
songbird

Pretty normal The hazmat fee is a rip off. It should be just the cost of doing business, but they make it a line item. Get an oil change on your car and you may see an additional "disposal" fee. Just a way of advertising a $29 oil change and charging $32.

This is what Amerigas has to say: HazMat & Safety Compliance Fee - This fee, which is assessed to propane deliveries and service calls, helps to offset a portion of the costs the Company incurs to comply with federal, state and local government regulations, including, but not limited to, hazardous materials, homeland security, emergency preparedness and workplace safety. It is also used to fund, among other things, employee safety training and inspections, cylinder re-qualification, and environmental compliance.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

The inspection fee might be because of the change of ownership. The hazmat fee is one of those little gouges like the odd fees on a landline phone bill.

A few years back I was on an autofill plan. A new driver tpped up the tank, which took about 8 gallons. The hazmat and delivery fee exceeded the price of the gas. I bitched, and they refunded the extra fees. About a month later, the same thing occurred. That's when I dropped the autofill. I keep an eye on the tank and when it's getting down I tell them to fill it. The Amerigas office is on one of the routes I walk for lunch so it's no big deal to stop by.

Reply to
rbowman

Another web portal user. Who won't see my reply.

When I worked for one place, they told us the 80% capacity was already figured in, and we put 20 pounds in the 20 pounders. I thought it was 16, but the boss said 20, and also the guy who taught the certification course so I could pump propane.

Also read on line, Blue Rhino was at one point put 15 pounds instead of 16. Maybe still do.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Best not to fill it all the way then, but consult with your clergyman.

That's ridiculous. How could those straps cause earthquakes?

You could call another local company, as if you were a prospective customer. Don't lie, just say you want to know the charges. Some day you may move again so you can say you expect to move. I'd be really surpised if they made up the hazmat fee or changed more than they should, because for 20 dollars it's not worth losing a customer.

As to inspection, someone can always agree to get a service, and they will change what they charge. One should ask how much first. If they said, We're not going to fill your tank unless you let us inspect the system and the charge is $100, what would you do? I can see why they want to inspect. Even if they wouldn't be legally liable, they don't want to morally liable or to have anything remotely to do with an explosion, and who knows what condition the previous owners left it in. Even if you had a house inspection, they vary in quality and usually don't have propane specialists doing them.

I'm sure someone would have filled your tank no questions asked. If I can find someone who will say my car passed its safety inspecition even though he didn't inspect it or doesn't know how, there are people who would fill your tank. Plus others who aren't old enough or educated enough or mature enough to foresee what can go wrong, who wouldnt' think they were doing anything wrong. Who might not be doing anything wrong by many standards, because after it's your responsibility and you probably had a home inspection before you bought the house.

My buddy just had his house inspected so he could refinance the mortgage. She was thorough compared to the previous guy, took her 50 minutes, plus travel time, plus maybe another hour's work at home, (plus she loses time when some people cancel when she's already there or on the way and she's not going to sue etc.) but she charges $400. At least $100 an hour when she's working. She started off a a secretary in their office, then someone lost his driver's license and she had to drive him around, and she saw what he did and said, "Hey I could do that".

Reply to
Micky

This outfit is called Amerigas.

They charge $60 per year to rent the tank, with the first year free. Of course, if you rent their tank, you don't have to pay for 10-year inspections of the regulators and the like, but you are limited to only getting gas from them.

Since the tank came with the house, and since I pay property tax on it every year, I can go to anyone I want.

But Amerigas seems to be the cheapest (Suburban and Kamps being two of the others).

Reply to
M. Stradbury

What's the danger if the tank goes empty anyway?

Reply to
M. Stradbury

A neighbor told me that the same thing happens when he's on the autofill plan. They come and put in a small amount of gallons and then he gets hit with the hazmat fee over and over again.

He says they charge more if you're on an "as-call" basis, so, he said what he does is not pay them.

When you don't pay them, they don't show up, even if you're on a schedule.

Then, when he gets down to about 20%, he pays them for the last fill. Once his check clears, they come.

So, he says, it's a way that he gets to be "on-call" at auto-fill prices.

Reply to
Cl?ment

The pilot lights go out. For furnaces and so forth once the pilot is out the valve should shut off until you relight the pilot. I have a gas range where the pilot would continue to leak gas until it's lit. No big deal since the flow is so low.

Reply to
rbowman

I'm in a rural area but typically the truck is out my way once a week. I just ask them to fill it when they're in the area and they don't charge for the on-call. If I ran out completely or something and got them out for a special trip, then they'd hit me for the call charge. I've only got a 100 gallon tank so it's not like i'm going to suck the truck dry.

Reply to
rbowman

I'll have to think about that for a while.

I have oil and I have been lax about checkign out billing and competition, but early on I did somethingr a little bit like your story.

To get automatic delivery they wanted me to sign a contract. I'm sure I coudl cancel at any time, but I coudln't make up my mind about anything so I didn't read it or write back. They come automatically anyhow. They want the business.

Reply to
Micky

This house has no pilots other than, I guess, the hot water heater. The gas stove & the gas fireplace is electrically ignited. So is the furnace. I think the hot water heater has the typical big red knob & pilot light.

So, I guess, if the gas runs out, the only problem is that the pilot goes out, so, we'd simply turn off the big red knob.

Is that correct?

Reply to
M. Stradbury

I thougght one of the big problems was that if the tank is empty it might mean there is a leak.

Reply to
Micky

I've heard of them....

That's cheap to rent the tank compared to here. It was $120 here, but that was 8 years ago. It's either the same, or more now. (Nothing ever goes down in price except the gas itself).

Then you OWN the tank, which is great. They are not cheap! When I bought my 500gal tank, the new ones were around $1600, but they had these older models, and were still at $1000. I got the last one. I asked the guy what the difference was between the older model and the newer one. He said nothing except it's from a a different company, and the color is different. Mine is gray, the newer ones were white. He said the price went up because steel prices rose, and they changed companies because they got a better deal. They were selling the old ones at the same price they were the year before, because they wanted to get rid of them, so to not have different colors. (like I could care about the color).

Is there a special entry on your prop tax for the tank? I have never seen that. We pay taxes on the home and any permanent other buildings, and the land itself. That's all. I have a couple small sheds I built on wheels (old hay wagon frames). They are not permanent, so no taxes. Plus I can move them if I decide I want them closer to the house, or whatever. I could move them if I was to move elsewhere too. When I build livestock shelters, I dont put the posts in the ground. They are built on top of railroad ties, and that means they can be moved, so no taxes. (I do put trailer home anchors in the ground so they dont blow over during storms, but that's still legal).

The company I usually get my gas from, is a local farmer owned company that also sells livestock feed, crop seed, and fertilizers.

Reply to
Paintedcow

Absolutely nothing. It's a way they can screw an extra $50 or more from a customer. If the gas was shut off for years, I could sort of understand it, because stuff can rust and corrode. But if I run out of gas on Monday and call them on Tuesday, there is no excuse or need to inspect. Yet, if I tell them at the office I ran out, they will do their useless inspection and charge me $50.

When my gas tank is filled, my furnace pilot light is OFF and cant leak gas. My old range has the old pilot lights, so a very tiny amount of gas can leak, but it's not enough to really cause a problem. But to be 100% safe, and also to protect them, I told them to write on my record, to always shut off the valve that goes to the house if I'm not home, when they fill the tank. All that means is that I have to re-light my pilot lights. No biggie! (only my furnace and range). My water heater is electric.

Reply to
Paintedcow

You dont even have to turn that off. Once the flame goes out, the thermocouple prevents gas from coming out the pilot light. But when you re-light the pilot, you need to turn that big red knob to OFF, then to PILOT, and when that's lit, turn it to ON.

Generally, only older kitchen ranges might leak a little gas from the pilot lights. But it's very little. Actually, in the summer, I turn off my range pilot lights to eliminate that extra heat in the house and to save gas. This is partly because I cook outdoors on my grill more than indoors in hot weather. Pilot lights are really not needed on ranges. Just keep a cig lighter next to the stove, and use that to ignite the flame. But some people seem to want everything "instant on". To me, stuff like that is insignificant. So it takes me an extra 5 seconds to flick my bic... Who cares.

Reply to
Paintedcow

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