Who actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank? (2023 Update)

I realize this is a legal question but has anyone here had this happen. Any advice?

  1. Bought a house, as is, in 2010, which came with a 1,000 gallon propane tank attached.
  2. Entered into agreement with fuel company "1" for fuel in 2010.
  3. No tank rental is paid to fuel company 1 because it's not their tank
  4. Recently a workman (inspecting the tank because of a new BBQ) mentioned that company 2 owns the tank
  5. Company 2 was recently bought by company 1.

Nothing more has happened, but, who owns that tank?

I feel "I" own it by virtue of multiple circumstances (but I'm not a lawyer!): a. I bought the house and everything attached to it b. I never signed an agreement with company 2 c. Company 2 abandoned that tank long ago (IMHO)

I suspect, if company 1 wants to assert ownership of that tank, they could say: A. Company 2 originally owned the tank B. Company 2 still owns that tank C. Therefore, company 1 (who owns company 2) owns that tank.

Have you ever been in this situation? What advice do you have for me?

TIA

Reply to
Alex Gunderson
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The tank may need perodic inspection in order to permit filling. So you mght need to add that to your question.

I do know the 20 pound propane tanks need a pressure test every so many years..

the tank is placed in a container covered with water. its then pressured to capacity. if the container holding the tank has water spill out the tank is expanding too much and has failed inspection. at least this is my understanding of what was explained to me many years ago.....

of course the tank exploding etc is also a failure...

Reply to
bob haller

Not likely. The person selling it didn't have the right to sell what wasn't his. You're in possession of stolen property. ;-)

Doesn't matter.

YO isn't worth much.

Yes.

Shut up. Maybe they'll never figure it out.

Reply to
krw

How could he know for sure, unless he works for company #2? It's possible company #2's name is on it, but maybe the previous owner bought and paid for it. Did the sales contract say anything, one way or the other? If I was selling a house with a propane tank, I'd be sure to spell out if it's included or not, and if not, who actually owns it.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm pretty sure you can't sell what you don't own. Meaning if the tank was in fact the property of a company and the previous owner did not own it, then by selling the house they can't transfer ownership to you just because they sold the house.

But the previous owner probably did, if it in fact really is their tank. So far, all you have is a workman saying it belonged to company #2. Isn't there any identification on it? When you chose company #1 to be your gas provider, I would think they would ask if you have a tank, need a tank, etc. And if you have a tank, I would think they would come out and inspect it before delivering gas to make sure it's safe. You would think during that process the issue of it being company #2's tank would have come up, but I guess not.

If it really is their tank, I doubt that is going to work. Not if they have a signed contract with the previous owner that lays out the terms of the lease and protects the company's rights like they normally would.

That sounds perfectly reasonable and right to me.

Why are you even worried about it? Unless someone is now demanding you pay for the tank, what's the problem?

Another possible angle, if you can still contact the seller, ask them who's tank it is. They may have bought it, or had it on lease, then bought it, etc. And again, anything in the contract about the tank? If it says the tank is included and someone shows up saying it's their tank and can prove it, then you'd have a claim against the seller. But if the contract is silent on the issue, I doubt you have a case.

Reply to
trader4

Well, these 1,000 gallon tanks are above ground, and they're built like cement outhouses, so the last thing on my mind is that the tank is gonna explode.

Besides, the tank has a date stamp of 1999 so it is in fine shape.

The company that fills the tank inspected it before entering into the agreement with me.

There is no way you're going to take a one thousand gallon tank and place it in a bucket of water. The thing is 15 feet long (or so).

We have a better chance of winning the lottery than the tank suddenly deciding to explode. So I'm not the least bit worried about safety.

I'm worried about ownership.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

I understand your point. But, what about "abandoned" property?

I guess that's because you're saying company 2 still owns the tank so it doesn't matter that they left it on my property, connected to the house, for the past few years?

Or, maybe they'll figure it's not worth losing a customer over a $1000 tank?

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

I think they go by serial number but I'm not sure.

Actually, there is no name on the tank other than the manufacturer on the nameplate and a serial number and the poundage figures, and things like that.

Nothing about the tank. It said the property was "as is".

I understand. When I first entered into the agreement with company 1 for the propane delivery, they asked for a bill of sale. I didn't have one so they accepted an affidavit that I wrote saying I owned it.

I never thought anything of it at the time, but that's all I really have that "specifically" mentions the tank ownership.

OK. This makes sense. But, did company 2 "abandon" the tank? Sort of like a ship at sea is abandoned and then anyone can have it?

Yes. There is a nameplate with a serial number, a date of manufacturer, a company of manufacturer, the weight, and a bunch of other poundage figures.

They did that years ago. I don't think the issue is safety. The tank is in great shape. It will outlast the United States, let alone the house, and me.

I don't see how, from just the serial number, company 1 would know anything about company 2. All they knew (and all I knew) at the time was that it certainly wasn't company 1's tank.

So they've been filling it for years.

Well, if they do have a signed lease, that would be interesting. I don't know that this exists. I never once spoke to the previous owner. I never even met them. They essentially walked away from the property.

Because I want to line up my ducks. Just in case they come to me, I don't want to say something stupid. I just want to know where I stand, legally. I do realize this is a home-repair group - but - I was hoping someone would have experience with this, first hand - and then could provide advice.

I do appreciate the help as I know you don't have to advise me.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Hmm, Can't you contact previous owner? Wonder why you did not check about the ownership(tank was rented, leased or what?) when you purchased the house? The seller, buyer, real estate lawyer were not diligent in this case, IMHO.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

You can be pretty sure that you don't own it. From the scenario you describe, probably No 1 owns it since they bought #2.

Your opinion does not matter. You cannot prove it was abandoned and unless you have a bill of sale that the previous owner of the house owned the tank, you did not buy it. On top of all that, propane companies are notoriously sleazy when it comes to filling tanks if it is not their tank. Some state laws may possibly come into play too, at least they do here in CT. If a propane company does not own the tank they are not allowed to fill it.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Yes I understand that the chances are one in a million but the question is: If the tank blew-up would you sue company 1?

Reply to
recyclebinned

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The answer is there's no way for anyone here to know -- we're not in possession of facts not available (sorta' goes w/o saying but in law everything 'pends on the specifics).

In all likelihood the case is as outlined previously presuming that the tank doesn't go back beyond the even the other company you do know of.

I don't think you can determine any real definitive answer to the question w/o further data either confirming as you say from a S/N whether the tank did come from one or the other companies in question if they have such records and can therefrom produce previous history.

Clearly you own the property in question; whether the tank was the previous occupant's to transfer is in doubt apparently so there is no way to rely on that as has been noted previously as well.

All in all, unless a phone call to the alternate company can shed light on whether it was there I suspect the cost involved in establishing the actual pedigree would probably exceed the value of the tank.

If it hasn't been an issue so far, I'd suspect it's unlikely to become one in the future.

Reply to
dpb

If they decide it's their tank tell them fine, they can have it as soon as the pay the storage fees. Even a nominal $10 a day is going to cost them some bucks.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

If the tank blows up and kills the neighbor's kid, will you still be claiming ownership of the tank? I doubt it.

Tell the owner of the tank to come and get their tank. Buy a new tank from a different propane supplier.

Reply to
noname

There are no lawyers involved when you buy a house in California. When you buy as is, you don't even bother with a home inspection out here.

It's not the real estate agent's responsibility. And, the buyer buys title insurance for this purpose.

Come to think of it. I wonder if my title insurance covers this?

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Around here - central Florida - such tanks are generally owned by the company providing the gas; they may or may not charge an annual fee for its use. However, if one changes gas provider, the previous company has 30 days to come get their tank; if they don't then it is bye-bye tank for them.

Reply to
dadiOH

It's funny you say that because my wife suggested we charge them rent!

The problem, of course, is that I need to have them deliver the propane.

I haven't done the research lately, but they were the cheapest of the four or five companies that I can buy propane from out here.

And, as they buy each other up, their numbers are dwindling.

I think they'll pick up the tank for free though - but then I'm left with buying a brand new tank.

Luckily, they're not too expensive, about a dollar a gallon, so, it would cost about a thousand gallons. I will have to put in a concrete reinforced pad and earthquake straps and I'll need to trench it since I'd move it elsewhere - so I've been looking up all that separately.

EDIT: Plus it looks like I need a set of high pressure and low pressure regulators. One each at the tank, and one at the house.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

the OP will find a must inspec date stamped into the tank, after that no propane supplier will legally be able to fill it....

I dont know how they inspect such large tanks, it might be like high pressure gas lines are inspected at weld joints. they are X ray.......

but the method doesnt matter.

try calling a totally different gas supplier perhaps at the other end of your state to get answers....

and be sure to ask about large propane tank inspections

Reply to
bob haller

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Reply to
bob haller

After googling and googling and googling, I've come to the belated realization that this is a relatively common situation.

I couldn't find any California statutes, so all I have is anecdotal forum and usenet situations, all of which have their myriad details, but it seems like the tank belongs to whomever can prove they own it.

I went back to my title papers, and there is just no mention of the tank. Since the serial number is presumably unique, I am slowly realizing it's probably their tank, and not mine, as I have thought all this time.

I will call the title insurance company today, to see if they'll compensate me for my $2,000 loss - but - since it's not actually mentioned in the paperwork, I doubt it's something they deal with.

So, now I'm making plans for buying a new tank, and putting it in myself.

It looks like I'll need the following (based on new regulations of distance from the house and earthquake resistance which had grandfathered the original tank but don't apply to new):

  • new 1,000 gallon propane tank *
  • reinforced concrete pad with tie-down eyehooks or lag bolts *
  • trench must be 12" deep minimum & 18" if driven over *
  • underground yellow flexible conduit (25' minimum distance) *
  • two galvanized steel risers at the tank *
  • high pressure regulator at the tank for the house *
  • low pressure regulator at the tank for the pool & BBQ *
  • low pressure regulator at the house *
Reply to
Alex Gunderson

Belatedly, I'm coming to that very same realization.

In fact, it seems that the current company might even be able to charge me back rent for the tank.

The rent is about $15/month, so that would amount to hundreds of dollars (for a tank that's only worth about $1 per gallon).

All the companies out here in California will fill only two types of tanks:

  1. Theirs
  2. Yours

So, I called the propane company, anonymously, and asked how much it would cost to have a new tank put in that I pay for.

If I buy the tank from them for roughly $1/gallon of capacity, they will deliver it and strap it down and put in the three regulators.

It's my responsibility to put in the reinforced concrete pad, tie-down attachment points, 12" trench, yellow conduit, & two stainless steel risers.

Reply to
Alex Gunderson

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