LO2 is more hazardous, however the fire marshals are more familiar with
that since it's common to have bulk LO2 tanks at hospitals and even
large nursing homes. Hydrogen is the big unknown to them, so bring the
MSDS sheet and the relevant page from the hazmat response book when you
talk to them.
Fuel cells can be made that use natural gas and State of Delaware was
fooled into financing a fuel cell manufacturer, Bloom Energy, to make
Delaware has a carbon cap rule but Dem's declared that these cells did
not have to abide by it.
So far Bloom is way behind in getting anything going yet we've been
paying for it with an extra $5 or so tacked on to every electric
Fact is that turbines can get more electricity out of natural gas than
fuel cells not to mention that someone is suing because they have better
cells than Bloom and were not given a chance to bid.
Get politicians involved in mandating science and we all know what happens.
On Thursday, November 6, 2014 4:14:47 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
Which is a regressive tax that hits everyone, including low income. But
that doesn't seem to bother the libs that vote for it.
Remember Carter's shale oil project? They spent $1bil+ and never produced
a drop of oil. And ironically now that we could be getting oil from a similar
private venture in Canada, that knows what they are doing and has the oil ready to go, the same kind of loons are blocking the K pipeline.
Hydrogen production isn't all that efficient and it needs to be compressed.
Then there is the PR problem. We had a glassblowing operation and for quartz
glass you need a hot hydrogen/oxygen flame. For industrial use, you get a
flat bed trailer with a number of long tubes and they just swap out the
trailers. Anyway we needed to get a permit from the local fire marshall.
When you say 'hydrogen...' a lot of people complete the sentence with
'bomb'. Actually the liquid oxygen tank might have been more hazardous but
oxygen sounds friendlier.
EVs probably have a decade to go before they are useable in very rural
areas. In any discussion of EVs today I assume suburban to urban use
since 15 mile range won't even get you to a rural area. In a rural area
15 miles won't even get you to a grocery store, much less back from it.
Another issue that bothers me is the added complexity. You have all
the possible failure modes for the gas side of it, plus you've added
all the failure modes possible on the electric side, plus you've added
all the possible new modes simply from combining the two technologies.
I doubt very much I would ever buy a hybrid, lease maybe. I want to
go with either straight gasoline or straight electric. And of the two
I tend to think the electric will be the best in the long run when it
becomes possible to charge/swap out batteries in 10 minutes or less.
I believe they are running them closer to 10,000 psi. I've routinely
strapped 3,000 psi gas cylinders to my back (SCUBA), fire fighters use
4,500 psi ones (SCBA) and I have a number of 2215 psi cylinders in my
shop that I transport in my truck periodically. It's not a big deal.
Worth noting, hydrogen is not found in the wild. It's
only a method of transporting energy which comes from
some other source. You can't drill and find hydrogen.
It's made by passing electricity through water, and
that electricity comes from some where else.
Talking about clean hydrogen power is like talking about
clean extension cord power. It's got to get power from
some where up the cord a bit.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
Actually most hydrogen is produced by steam reforming of methane. The bad
news is the end products after two reactions are carbon dioxide and
hydrogen. When you start with hydrocarbons, you have to do something with
We've been talking about hydrogen used as a "battery", and the fact that
hydrogen is rather inefficient for that currently but does have the
advantage of being able to be used in conventional IC engines, not just
in fuel cells. Hydrogen is also produced from natural gas which is an
entirely different thing and essentially still a "fossil" fuel.
The damaging effects of Quantitative Easing haven't been counted as
inflation. If they were then inflation would have been listed as very
high the past few years. The left leaning economists on NPR have said
that there is no telling what the effects of this QE will be since they
are entirely unprecedented, however the much more limited QE in the
Great Depression had negative effects for somewhere around 15 years
This is the same as the false unemployment rates being bragged about by
the current administration. The reality is that the actual unemployment
rate is much higher (I've heard 12-13%) since they are excluding all the
people who gave up looking for work, and it also doesn't take into
account in any way that the new jobs pay a fraction of what the jobs
that were lost pay.
It's all smoke and mirrors, just like the claims that the "tiny
percentage" of islamist lunatics aren't really a threat to the world.
The reality is far different and that "tiny percentage" combined with
the majority of muslims who are passive supporters of the islamists are
a serious threat to the entire civilized world.
If you covered all available flat surface areas on a prius or similar
with PV, you could probably fit about 500W worth of panels. That would
get you about 4KWh of charge in a really sunny 8 hour work day, so if
the numbers above are correct there is some possibility of solar
charging for your commute home in sunny weather.
The good thing about hydrogen is that you can use it in conventional
engines and it's combustion emission is water vapor. Thus you can have a
"remote electric zero emissions vehicle" in that you can use "green"
electricity to separate and compress the hydrogen and then use it to run
a fairly conventional car.
Big problem with hydrogen is cost of transporting it.
Off hand, I recall, a mole of gas occupies about 22.4 liters at standard
temperature and pressure. A mole of hydrogen weighs 2 grams.
You can figure out what kind of pressures and containers it would take
to contain even a gallon of hydrogen as if a liquid.
Then, of course, there is the infrastructure problem. Hydrogen filling
stations needed to fill tanks to maybe 5,000 psi. How'd you like to
have a car with one of these tanks parked in your garage? ;)
The two popular pressures are 350 bar (5000 psi) and 700 bar (10000 psi).
BMW has been fooling around with liquid hydrogen, but that's about -425
degrees F. Even with an insulated tank it's going to warm up and vent.
Even straight compression is another hit on the efficiency let alone going
the cryogenic route.
Most people wouldn't think about the tank. An oxygen tank in a welding rig
is 2000-2500 psi when it's full, and a scuba tank is 3000 psi. I do get a
little squeamish when I see people horsing oxygen cylinders around without
the bonnet. Never saw it and it might be an urban legend but I've heard they
make great unguided missiles if you snap the vale off.
When gas was below $1/gal, the US Dollar was also worth quite a bit more
than it is today. Between the built-in depreciation of the Dollar and
the "Quantitative Easing" taxation of every Dollar in existence the
value has fallen considerably.
Yes, just for normal "inflation" which is really deflation of the
currency value. Now add in the last few years of "Quantitative Easing"
taxation of every dollar in existence and you find that current fuel
prices are pretty well on par with what they were back then.
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