I compared 11 electric-only vehicles and 11 plug-in hybrids for cost per
mile on electricity (for electric only) and cost per mile on electricity
versus cost per mile on gasoline. I did this at various prices per KWH
and prices per gallon.
What's interesting (and infuriating) is that about two miles away from
me is another city that doesn't use a for-profit utility, but that has a
municipally owned power company. They charge about 11¢/KWH (Silicon
Valley Power). I pay about 32¢ per KWH (PG&E).
Bottom line is that until gasoline is over $4.65 per gallon there's no
point in plugging my wife's Prius Plug-In. But someone in Santa Clara
should plug in as long as gasoline is more than $1.65 per gallon.
Unless you have free or low-cost electricity, the big advantage of
plug-in hybrids, or all-electric, vehicles, in California, are those
beautiful stickers that go on your bumpers that allow you to use the
carpool lanes with only one occupant in the vehicle. Actually they have
stopped issuing the stickers for the plug-in hybrid vehicles as they
reached the limit, but of course the vehicle manufacturers were able to
push through a bill expanding the number again.
Spreadsheet is at:
<tinyurl.com/mpgvskwh> or if you're scared of TinyURLs, use <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gsMLOa9VT-h5TUfYWmZh9AgMOfGBY_Cxfb-W_FJpIJQ/edit?pli=1#gid 88830099>.
Let me know of any errors. The data is not always easily available.
Especially the real battery capacity versus the rated capacity of the
battery pack if it were charged all the way (which vehicle manufacturers
Very interesting study. Pardon the pun, but what you pay for
electricity is shocking. Private co. here in DE is about 11¢/KWH.
At my 6,000 mi/yr I'd save about $180/yr with hybrid but if you factor
in extra cost of the hybrid over conventional car savings would be nil.
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:45:00 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
That's what happens when you let a bunch of libs run things. I'll
bet if you look at the root causes, he's paying 32c/kwh because they
are funding moon beams, saving the whales, whatever, off his electric bill.
I'm not certain about our 11 cents. I got it from googling the company.
Libs are in charge here and we're all paying an extra $5 for a company
developing natural gas fuel cells which are less efficient than
generators and we may be paying for offshore windmills which are now
When GM abandoned their plant here, the Dems financed Fisker to build
their $90,000 Karma here and they took the money and left.
Government's got no business in investing taxpayer money in businesses.
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:49:37 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
11 cents sounds possible. Here, NJ, few months ago when I last checked
it was about 12.5. It's come down quite a bit. A few years ago, it was
~17c. That's the number I was using, hadn't checked for quite a while.
I was pleasantly surprised that it's come down.
I'm not certain but think bulk of NJ electricity is from nuclear.
Since coal is being chased out I think most of our power comes from
adjacent states. Delmarva power includes parts of Maryland and Virginia.
Found this state by state comparison googling around:
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:19:07 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
Only about 20% is from nuclear. Even less in just a couple years.
The environmentalists succeeded in getting one to shut down.
Our power does too, mostly from coal.
That's interesting, because as I said, just a few years ago, I was
paying ~17c. That chart says 16c. I was surprised that the last
couple times I calculated, it was down to 12.5c. Part of what may be
going on here is that NJ has several power companies. I may be lucky
and have one that is lower than others.
As usual, your conservative filter has interjected nonsense. The CPUC
has instituted tiered rates to encourage conservation and reduce the need
to build new power plants. The basic rate is about USD0.15/kwh for the
initial basic allocation and goes up in two tiers based on usage. The highest
rate is USD0.35/kwh for the top tier (but that only accounts for about 10%
or less of the average customer usage, so they're paying much less per kwh
Using that same logic, Sharpie Pens should be
0.99 each and $14.99 a dozen, to discourage
usage and need for more factories.
Customers using a store card at the gas station
should pay more for gas, because they use more.
Donuts should be .89 each, and should be $13.99
a dozen to discourage over consumption.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
My neighbor, an ER doc, tells me that approximately
60% of hospital patients are being treated for
health problems that are completely preventable.
Basically, we as a nation eat too damn much
and as a result are obese.
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:27:25 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
As usual, you can't do basic math. All you've told us is that the
rates are being set artificially high by govt. Now think about it.
There is a huge, about 2X difference in revenue coming in and it's got
to be going somewhere. And if they are using it to chase economically
unviable energy sources, which even you apparently acknowledge, that is
indeed chasing moon beams and saving the whales. Capiche?
The basic rate is about USD0.15/kwh for the
So, again, the libs are artificially jacking up rates and screwing the
consumer, big time. And where is all that money going? How much punishment to
the citizens is enough? Have you libs no compassion for the poor? I guess
you like to screw them with one big hand, keep them down and out, then pretend
to help them with the other hand, by making them dependent on govt and you
libs for assistance.
This stupidity is like the US screwing our economy, our citizens, our jobs,
by placing huge costs on the economy over CO2, while India and China do as they
please. It's like pissing in the wind. In this case, you libs must
feel wonderful, pretending to save
the environment, while in almost every other state, we're enjoying electric
at half the rates or less, and what you're doing makes no difference in the
I just took a quick look, but did not see an amortization factor for the
cost of replacing the vehicle's battery.
Seems like that would add significantly to the cost per mile.
e.g. $5,000 replacement cost, 1,000 charges in life of battery, 200
miles per charge.... $5.00/200 = 2.5 cents per mile... and I would
think that's on the low side.
Or didn't I look closely enough?
The Prius Hybrid (not plug-in) has a 8 yr or 100,000 mile warranty. We
bought ours almost 10 years ago (2005?) with no problems. My niece has
I heard (somewhere) the batteries in the Prius's are lasting longer than
even the mfg expected. Also, the battery prices have been coming down.
That's not to say it isn't expensive but, it's not as bad as many had
predicted. You can get a refurbished Prius hybrid battery for around
$1600. New probably about $1000 more if you shop around. One thing I
know is...don't buy it at the dealer.
There is a growing movement to factor in a cost of how many miles they drive
so a road tax can be charged. This is because roads are paid for by the tax
on fuel. As far as I know there is no seperate charge (tax) on the power
used for the electric cars.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 7:51:03 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
Two points. One is that a tax on nukes to pay for long term storage of
waste is very different than govt artificially screwing with and setting
market prices for energy. The second is, we had exactly that. A tax on
nukes to pay for the long term storage. It went on for years, until a court
ruled a couple years ago that it was illegal, since the tax was to fund the
nuclear waste storage. You libs killed that project in Nevada after billions
had already been spent on it and it was half completed. So, now nuclear
waste is piling up at storage pools at facilities all over the country,
instead of being at a highly secure, safe area. The tax is no longer
being collected. Feel better?
Good job. Looks to me that for a lot of people gas will cost about
twice as much per mile as electric. I say that based on people doing
the recharge at night when rates are lower. If I had an electric or
hybrid I'd charge it at night when my electric is about 9 cents a kWh.
That's going to get me a cost per mile on electric of about 3 cents a
mile. At any realistic gasoline price I'd be paying at least twice as
much per mile.
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