Hard to tell from the pic. The wire size combinations they
are good for should be on the package
I noticed that too. He needs enough to bond the motors back
to the rest of the pool metal, ie keep the existing bond system
intact. Rest of the stuff looks fine.
On another issue, he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?
He's posted a lot of pics. Does that mean you've seen the nut
in the pics? I would think using a nut would be the typical
connection method, for obvious reasons. But if there is a nut,
I don't understand why he says he has to rotate the motor to
get the elbow off.
On Wed, 01 May 2013 08:26:00 -0700 firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
It took me a while to snap the pictures for you (see below).
There is no nut.
The darn elbow drove me crazy for a total of six motors so far
(the first three are shown below):
Here's the problem:
1. You can't get the motor endcap off half the time so you
can't even disconnect the wires in the first place due to
the bolts rusting in place (why they use standard steel
bolts on outdoor motors is beyond my comprehension).
Here are four "extra" motor caps, for example, from
past motors I tried to extricate from the plumbing:
2. When you finally get the motor endcap off, and disconnect
the three 10AWG wires, you can't easily get them through
the restrictive 90 degree 1/2 to 1" elbow due to the size
of the crimped on spade & lug connectors.
Here's the filter pump with the 90 degree elbow attached:
Luckily, the spa jet pump has a straight-through fitting:
Is there a better way than the straight through connectors
that I bought at Home Depot?
On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 email@example.com wrote:
I don't have the experience to have known to describe the difference,
in advance anyway - but what you say is exactly what's happening!
Gimme a sec to snap a photo to show what I mean, on the last
three motors that were hooked to these very same wires:
The existing 90 degree 1/2" to 1" elbow is fantastically difficult
to remove, such that the wires get all twisted and the insulation
cracked so badly that I had to put wire goop on them where they
go into the conduit (see circled area in this picture):
So, I plan on slicing the 1" conduit a couple inches back, and
removing all the cracked wire and then putting the junction box
down at that point.
You'll also notice I bought straight-through conduit connectors
as I'm done with 90 degree elbows!
Is there a better way?
That settles it. There are threads in the motor housing.
So, you're right, it makes it a PITA to remove.
It sounds like a reaonable approach to me.
But if it were me, I'd probably get out a 1/2"+
drill, ream out those threads and use a locknut to secure
the elbow to the motor. Then I'd use a straight run of conduit
back to the timer box. But, I have those drills :)
In your situation, nothing wrong with what you're doing.
I'll say it bluntly that fear of the unknown is my reason.
I'm afraid of touching anything in the $$$ control box.
Someday I'll have to tackle it though, because I can't find
the darn heater fireman switch - but that's for a later day ...
By the way, the motor cleaned up instantly with the muriatic
acid. I was shocked how the deposits just frizzled away.
(muuuuch quicker than with the toilet bowl deposits!)
Here's the motor being doused with the acid (outside!).
Notice the instantaneous action on the concrete:
Dousing with the hose washed almost all the deposits off:
I'm actually afraid of touching the control panel.
In fact, I do need to disassemble it to find the
darn fireman switch to the heater (which is throwing
an "open fault code").
But that's for another day ...
On Wed, 01 May 2013 15:05:31 -0700 Ashton Crusher wrote:
I have no idea if that's a lot of wires for a controller or not.
But to answer your question, it seems to control:
1. Three single-speed 220V pumps (filter, cleaner, spa jets)
2. Two 24V Jandy valves (solar:gas heating & spa:pool filtering)
3. One gas-fired heater (for spa & pool heating)
4. Two sets of underwater lights (in the pool & spa)
That's about it (I think).
I would think that's a pretty normal setup - so your question about
"all that wiring" is surprising to me (but I don't know any other pool).
Here's the picture of the wiring again (so you don't have to look it up):
On Wed, 1 May 2013 23:21:10 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
I've got two pumps, one for the spa and the other handles the pool and
cleaner together. Just one time clock to turn the pool pump on and
off. The spa heater is turned on manually and the valves moved to
"spa position" manually. Light is turned on and off manually.
I guess your's is fully automated, hence teh complexity. Not sure I'd
want that level of complexity. In fact, I don't even want the pool or
spa anymore! I wish they could be easily and cheaply put in storage.
That's a temperature sensor, part of the solar control system.
To measure water temp, you drill a hole in the PVC pipe that
accomondates the long part, the sensor goes in and a hose
clamp secures it in place. There is a seal that is part of it
that prevents it from leaking. Or it could go at the solar panels
to measure the temp there. Those are the two relevant temps.
What it's doing hanging there, IDK. It may be one more that
acts as a freeze sensor, but would seem to me the one on
the solar panels could do that too.
If it was installed just hanging there like that, it;s another
fine example of incompetent installers.
Thanks for doublechecking for me.
I'm not sure if I was supposed to get stranded, but, the
existing wire is apparently 10AWG stranded - so that's why
I got the same for the extension wire.
Here's a shot of the existing wires I took just now:
You'll notice that I need to cut off about 6 inches because
they're all busted up from spinning the motor and tugging
them through the tiny restriction of the 1/2 inch to 1 inch
You'll see that the darn wires, with the connectors crimped
on, do not fit in the half-inch elbow easily - but that's
the size of the pump opening - so not much can be done
about it I guess.
Thanks for doublechecking as I've never done 220 volt wiring
before - and this is the largest diameter wire I've ever done.
Here's a closeup of the package I just snapped to clarify:
20AWG to 10AWG, Medium Direct Bury Waterproof Connectors
Of course, I could have gotten just regular wire nuts;
but I figured these were better (what I really expected was
that there was some kind of bolted down connection sort of
like there is in a fuse panel).
Ah, thanks for asking as I hadn't mentioned it, but,
you actually noticed it's not there.
I appreciate that you're thinking of what's to come!
Since I'm not sure where the pumps will actually end up,
I figured I'd get that solid wire last since it's not
a "functional" requirement. (Yes, I know, it's a safety
requirement - so what I'll do is clamp to the existing
bonding wire when testing or more likely - I'll run with
the dark horses & just stay a few feet away while testing.)
Nope. It's threaded on in such a way as to make the job
of removing it downright despicable.
I apologize that I caused confusion by not posting pictures
taken earlier which showed the inside of the motor housing
better. I just didn't know enough to clarify earlier.
Here's a sequence of closeup pictures I had taken a few
days ago when I had removed the 1/2" to 1" 90 degree elbow:
1. With the endcap removed, you might be able to see that
there is no nut on the inside of the motor:
2. This closeup might show the inside a bit better:
3. Even worse, in this picture, you can see that it's
nearly impossible to get the three crimped-connector
very stiff stranded wires out that teeeny tiny hole!
4. The result is that I have to remove the motor to get any
room at all to spin the 90 degree elbow off:
I curse the guys who put it together in the first place.
The good news is that the straight through connector "should"
eliminate the need to spin the motor; and the junction box
"should" allow me to remove the motor even when the endcaps
bolts rust through.
BTW, what do you suggest I put on the endcap steel bolts
so that they DON'T RUST solid?
i use anti-seize on things i want to unscrew at a later date. i've used
this on steel and brass screws and setscrews on my grinders and tile
saw, which are underwater all the time. it comes in a small tube or
bottle. you can get it at automotive stores easily.
On Wed, 01 May 2013 11:17:18 -0700 chaniarts wrote:
Hmmm... Lately I've been oiling them, to prevent rust,
but I hadn't thought of the anti-seize paste (which I
have a lot of from my automotive efforts).
I never thought of anti-seize as "anti rust".
But it sounds like it should work!
On Wed, 01 May 2013 11:35:25 -0700 chaniarts wrote:
I will use anti-seize when I put the motor back in!
Thanks for the tidbit.
NOTE: The main reason those three motors couldn't be repaired by
me was that the long bolts (which are about 15 or so inches long)
always break - because they too are rusted in place.
Why on earth they use soft steel bolts that are a couple of
millimeters thick and more than a foot long for an outside
motor is beyond me.
If they made stainless steel replacements, that's what I'd
put in them!
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