I will use anti-seize when I put the motor back in! Thanks for the tidbit.
NOTE: The main reason those three motors couldn't be repaired by me was that the long bolts (which are about 15 or so inches long) always break - because they too are rusted in place.
Why on earth they use soft steel bolts that are a couple of millimeters thick and more than a foot long for an outside motor is beyond me.
If they made stainless steel replacements, that's what I'd put in them!
OK. That's it! :) You publicly shamed me into taking a closer look at the control panel:
This is what I found inside, which, incidentally, is the kind of "junction box" that I was expecting to put on the ground:
I guess I would unscrew the nut and then loosen the three bolts holding down the wires to disconnect?
PS: What is that thing hanging down to the left that looks like a potentiometer?
What in the world is being "controlled" besides the two pumps and that requires all that wiring????
You can paint threads?
Here is a picture of the last 3 pool pump motors I "tried" to repair. Notice every single bolt broke!
If they made stainless steel bolts to that size, it would be worth it - because when they break, you have to hammer the motor open.
I have no idea if that's a lot of wires for a controller or not.
But to answer your question, it seems to control:
That's about it (I think).
I would think that's a pretty normal setup - so your question about "all that wiring" is surprising to me (but I don't know any other pool).
Here's the picture of the wiring again (so you don't have to look it up):
no, unless you don't ever want to get them unthreaded.
I didn't think so.
It would be nice to source stainless steel bolts so this doesn't happen again!
Turns out the Ewing fitting was EXACTLY the same as Home Depot. So I had wasted a trip.
Luckily, I stopped off to talk to Bob, at Swimco, just around the corner. That guy will talk your ear off (I love him!) with that gravelly voice - but boy oh boy - does he KNOW motors!
That's a temperature sensor, part of the solar control system. To measure water temp, you drill a hole in the PVC pipe that accomondates the long part, the sensor goes in and a hose clamp secures it in place. There is a seal that is part of it that prevents it from leaking. Or it could go at the solar panels to measure the temp there. Those are the two relevant temps. What it's doing hanging there, IDK. It may be one more that acts as a freeze sensor, but would seem to me the one on the solar panels could do that too.
If it was installed just hanging there like that, it;s another fine example of incompetent installers.
have you tried mcmaster-carr? they're going to be expensive no matter where you find them.
do they have to be threaded all the way? perhaps you can get some ss rod and have someone thread just the ends.
From the looks of that pic, maybe a better idea is to get a whole new pump, because one has to wonder if what's there will ever work correctly if he puts it back together.
Also, a dual speed pump would likely pay for itself with a reasonable payback period, depending on his cost of electricity
They are only threaded on the last inch.
Yup. Already been done.
All three of those motors have already been replaced, so, they've just been sitting outside, as spare parts or whatever (hate to throw away something that _might_ be useful some day).
I never understood dual-speed motors. All the filter pump does is filter. All the cleaner pump does is feed the pop ups in the bottom of the pool.
Why would I ever want to change the speed of that?
And, if I do want a slower speed, why didn't they make the motors at the desired speed in the first place?
Exactly. Those are my old filter, cleaner, and spa jet motors. I took them apart, with the hopes of fixing them; but I learned that the time to make the bolts easier to remove is BEFORE the motor goes bad! Like now, when I have a 1-year old motor in my hands.
BTW, tonight I hope to assemble everything so I'm agonizing over where exactly to put the two pumps.
One question I have is about this silly looking red valve:
I'm sure it's a drain of some sort, probably for the cloth cartridge filter thing - but I've never used it. It's not threaded, so nothing goes on the other end. I can easily drain the filters simply by removing the pump basket cover, since the equipment is 8 feet below waterline, I can drain the entire pool from the pump basket, if I _really_ want to.
Do you have any idea what this red drain is for? If so, would you replace it or eliminate it when moving the pumps back?
Oh, I didn't know you had your own scrap yard too.....
No idea. Don't see any use for it and I would eliminate it.
Because the amount of electricity used by the pump goes up by like the cube of the flow rate. So, you can run the pump for twice as long at half the rate, move the same amount of water, and use a lot less electricity. The only pump you could make dual speed would be the filter pump.
Because the motors cost a little more, you have to run one more wire, need an addional switch, electricity used to be a lot less expensive, etc. But now I understand that in some states, there are laws requiring the use of dual or variable speed for new installations.
I've got two pumps, one for the spa and the other handles the pool and cleaner together. Just one time clock to turn the pool pump on and off. The spa heater is turned on manually and the valves moved to "spa position" manually. Light is turned on and off manually.
I guess your's is fully automated, hence teh complexity. Not sure I'd want that level of complexity. In fact, I don't even want the pool or spa anymore! I wish they could be easily and cheaply put in storage.
UPDATE: Yesterday, in the hour left between arriving home and mosquito darkness I tried to cut the pipes using my new pipe-cutting tool, but it broke on the very first attempt: [img]
So I hacksawed the outlet of the filter pump at the elbow: [img]
And, I hacksawed the inlet of the filter pump at the midway point: [img]
Removing the wires from the wiring conduit elbow was problematic: [img]
Crazily twisted and cracked 10AWG wires are always the result: [img]
By nightfall, I finally had the room to repair the leaks and relocate both the filter pump and the cleaner pump and figure out where to put the pipes so that I can more easily maintain the equipment yet not to introduce too many additional bends (some day I'll convert the whole thing to curves): [img]
Surprise!
When I sliced the pipe at the Jandy valve of the filter pump a bit closer, I realize there was thick (schedule 200?) gray pipe: [img]
I called the pool guys who said that their service men use that gray schedule 200 because it's thicker and stronger than PVC schedule
Do you know if there is any truth to that statement which implies I shouldn't use white PVC schedule 40 at the pumps because it heats up and is more brittle than the gray thicker schedule 200???
Anyway, this thick gray schedule 200 pipe should probably be bored out; but I don't have the boring tool: [img]
I called up Jandy (now Zodiac) at 800-822-7933x1x5x, and spoke to their technical support, and pointed them to this thread. They said they don't sell the boring tool, and, that the 2.5" coupling should work.
Back at the now-removed pump, I was worried the filter pump inlet threaded coupling would be glued in from all the repairs - but it spun out easily with an oil filter wrench, of all things: [img]
Here you can see all the caulk and pipe dope in the world was really useless because none of it penetrated to the threads themselves: [img]
However, it can be seen that there certainly was teflon tape used in the original fittings: [img]
And, now I'm ready to put it all back together in a leak-free yet maintenance friendly way: [img]
The only major removal decision left is:
- Should I remove the Nature2 bactericidal cartridge contraption?
PS: Do the img tags help or hurt? (I feel badly you have to click on so many links.)
UPDATE (without IMG tags): Yesterday, in the hour left between arriving home and mosquito darkness I tried to cut the pipes using my new pipe-cutting tool, but it broke on the very first attempt:
So I hacksawed the outlet of the filter pump at the elbow:
And, I hacksawed the inlet of the filter pump at the midway point:
Removing the wires from the wiring conduit elbow was problematic:
Crazily twisted and cracked 10AWG wires are always the result:
By nightfall, I finally had the room to repair the leaks and relocate both the filter pump and the cleaner pump and figure out where to put the pipes so that I can more easily maintain the equipment yet not to introduce too many additional bends (some day I'll convert the whole thing to curves):
Surprise!
When I sliced the pipe at the Jandy valve of the filter pump a bit closer, I realize there was thick (schedule 200?) gray pipe:
I called the pool guys who said that their service men use that gray schedule 200 because it's thicker and stronger than PVC schedule
Do you know if there is any truth to that statement which implies I shouldn't use white PVC schedule 40 at the pumps because it heats up and is more brittle than the gray thicker schedule 200???
Anyway, this thick gray schedule 200 pipe should probably be bored out; but I don't have the boring tool:
I called up Jandy (now Zodiac) at 800-822-7933x1x5, and spoke to their technical support, and pointed them to this thread. They said they don't sell the boring tool, and, that the 2.5" coupling should work.
Back at the now-removed pump, I was worried the filter pump inlet threaded coupling would be glued in from all the repairs - but it spun out easily with an oil filter wrench, of all things:
Here you can see all the caulk and pipe dope in the world was really useless because none of it penetrated to the threads themselves:
However, it can be seen that there certainly was teflon tape used in the original fittings:
And, now I'm ready to put it all back together in a leak-free yet maintenance friendly way:
I hope ... (I've never done this before) ...
Probably because the old pipe has been sitting outside for many years and has gotten hard, while new PVC is softer. I've never used a knife type cutter on 2" or larger pipe, so don't know how hard it really is. I've always used a hacksaw for those sizes. But your experience is a good lesson for all.
Can't you push/pull out those wires through the elbow one at a time? If necessary, you could even cut off the terminals then crimp new ones on later as long as you have 3/8" or so of extra wire. Looks to me like you should be able to get those wires out without destroying them. When you do the re-wiring, leave some extra free wire.
Also, can't tell from the pic, but is it possible that a better way to wire it would be to bring the wires straight into the motor behind or on the sides of that terminal block, then make a u-turn and come back? If you could do that, then you could have several inches of wire to work with, can straighten it out, have it go straight back into the conduit, instead of making that sharp immediate turn to the terminals it now has.
I don't know what that is. It looks like a pipe over a bushing to me, not just one piece of pipe. If it's some kind of thicker doubled pipe, why would it be only thick right at the valve, and not where you cut it further back?
Does sched 200 even mate with the fittings you have, ie Jandy valve? Maybe that's what the doubled up looking thing is, some adapter to go from one to the other?
Sched 40 is all that I've seen used here in NJ. And apparently it works, because I haven't heard any horror stories. Are those pool guys from the company that installed it? If so, we know they don't know what they're doing....
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You seem to be doing fine. Carry on....
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