That means this 500 gallon spare tank "could" last someone ten days:
Based on the very helpful suggestions in this thread, we're planning
on tying that 100 pound plastic tank in a pickup or trailer.
The key question is what kind of pickup/trailer can haul the
weight that we will have access to.
Since the hints here are to fill it to the brim, the tank has
the number 685 on it, so, we assume it holds 685 gallons max:
Roughly, 685 gallons x 8 pounds ~= 5,500 pounds, plus another
hundred pounds for the tank itself, is about 2-1/2 tons.
So, we need to find a truck (or trailer) that can haul 2.5 tons
up a windy road from this brand new fire hydrant:
Any suggestions on the pickup truck given those new numbers?
On 7/1/2014 12:24 AM, DannyD. wrote:>
> Roughly, 685 gallons x 8 pounds ~= 5,500 pounds, plus another
> hundred pounds for the tank itself, is about 2-1/2 tons.
> So, we need to find a truck (or trailer) that can haul 2.5 tons
> up a windy road from this brand new fire hydrant:
> Any suggestions on the pickup truck given those new numbers?
Rented, comes to mind. I predict failures of
transmissions, gear boxes, and all other kinds
Interesting. That's a dry pipe hydrant. I thought
you were / are in California? Does it get cold and
freeze in the winter? North part of the state?
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Tue, 01 Jul 2014 07:42:20 -0400:
I don't know what you mean by a "dry pipe hydrant", so,
googling for that term, Wikipedia says it's a non-pressurized
But this "Guide to planning & installing dry hydrants"
implies that it's for sucking water out of a lake or pond.
I can call the San Jose Water Company to be sure, but,
what do you mean by a dry hydrant (and how can you tell
just by looking at the photo)?
CY: The red one at top is dry pipe. Down a ways, the green one (my color
vision is terrible) in the Phillipines is wet pipe.
CY: Not what I meant.
Well, actually neither of those was what I meant. In cold
climates like NYS where I live, the fire hydrants use a long controlling
shaft. The water pipe and valve are four or five
feet below ground. When the FD turns the five pointed lug
ON TOP, it opens the valve which is about four feet below
ground. When the FD turns off the hydrant, a small valve
opens at the bottom. The water in the barrel drains into
a bit of gravel at the bottom. That way, the barrel does
not freeze solid. Which would prevent use, or split the
pipe due to freezing and expanding.
CY: Dry pipe hydrants have a controlling lug on top. Wet
pipe hydrants have the lug opposite the cap and threads.
Wet hydrants are opened by turning a lug on the SIDE of
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Tue, 01 Jul 2014 07:44:08 -0400:
Let's not get into that!
Armed with the great information in this thread, we were
able to garner another 1,000 gallons of water simply by
lifting the floats in two neighbor's water tanks!
Here's the water flow from the newer home construction into
the third of three 5000 gallon tanks after lifting the float:
By way of contrast, here's the flow into the first of five
5,000 gallon tanks at another residence after doing the same:
Thanks for all your advice, we're coming up with an action plan
which will (a) inspect all the tanks, (b) test the fire systems,
and (c) allow us to truck water up the hills when we run out.
Now, that's good news. Perhaps the folks who have
good wells can and will share with others. I think
it's a very wise idea to briefly test the fire
department connections. Best to find a problem
NOW, not during a crisis.
I haven't read all of the replies so far, and I have no experience in doing
something like this. But these are some quick thoughts or ideas that come to
Would the water company require a meter if they were pumping the water into
a fixed size tank or container -- such as a 55-gallon drum? Meter or no
meter, if they are pumping the water into a 55 gallon drum, it seems like
they could just charge you for the 55 gallons and call it a day. So, if
they will do that, you could skip all of the meter cost issues. Hopefully
the water company will go for that.
How much do clean empty 55 gallon drums cost? I don't know. But water
weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon, so a 55 gallon drum would weigh about 457
pounds. Two of them in a 1/2 ton pickup truck should be no problem. To
transport 1,000 gallons would take about twenty 55-gallon drums. That's 10
five-mile trips via pickup truck with two drums per trip.
Any chance that you could hook up a deal with a local (possibly volunteer)
fire department? I don't know how many gallons a typical fire department
pumper truck holds, but I know that most can pump 500 to 1000 gallons a
minute if needed, so I assume that they can hold more than 1000 gallons.
Maybe have them do a training exercise for newer firefighters on the
operation and use of the pumper trucks and give them a significant donation
for doing that.
Those are just my quick thoughts.
On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 1:10:56 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
Just yesterday I took a buddy of mine to buy 2 used 55 gallon drums, They wouldnt fit in his vehicle. 25 bucks for two.....
He bought 2 about 10 years ago and bought 2 new ones since one had cracked and leaked.
last time they were 2 for 20 bucks.
hauling water will become old, its time to drill a new well, go way deeper so this problem wouldnt occur again.
drillers drill brand new wells, rather than make existing well deeper....
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Tue, 01 Jul 2014 09:04:07 -0400:
I spoke to Calfire who said they would be perfectly happy
to come to our homeowners meeting and discuss fire protection
during this time of drought.
We meet every few months so I sent that in to the person
setting up the homeowners meetings.
I've seen some Youtube videos of forest fires in
CA, and they are terrifying, even in NYS in my
living room. Please invite everyone, only 10% will
attend, and 5% will pay much attention.
I suspect the FD water is "non potable" since it's
not food grade tanks, inspected, etc.
The local Calfire trucks are pretty small. They hold 500 gallons and 700
gallons. What Calfire told me was they almost always are attended by
water tenders anywhere they go.
But, they said they don't ever put water in someone's tank unless
they sucked it out. Whatever they use, they say they replace, but,
they don't put it in if they didn't use it (liabilities they said).
Also, two different guys said different things regarding the wharf
hydrants at every residence. One said they almost never use them,
while the superior said they use them a lot. So, I'm not sure if
they even use them, because they prefer their water tenders, but,
they did say the pressure is low coming out of the wharf hydrants.
As for the training, they said they'd come out and talk to us at
our homeowners meetings, which we have sporadically.
My *guess* is that to drill deeper via an existing well, the "deeper"
part will have to be a smaller diameter than the pre-existing well
casing. For example, if you want a new well with a 6" o.d. casing,
you probably have to drill with a 6.5" bit. If you want to deepen a
6" well, you can't use the 6.5" bit. You have to use something smaller
that will fit in the existing 6" pipe.
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Tue, 01 Jul 2014 20:03:04 -0400:
Well, I did ask them about that, and they said they replace
any water that they use from our tanks or pools.
So, I would "think" it's potable.
They say more than one "water tender" accompanies them
everywhere they go, if possible, so, most of the water
they use is from those tenders.
They didn't know where the tenders get their water
since they said they float and are not attached to
any one fire department.
Most likely from the muni hydrants. Quick and easy.
Problem is that hydrant water is often rusty,
and it's "possible" the tenders (we call em tankers
in the east) are filled with pond water after a
pond drafting operation.
That makes sense.
I know I have two wells, where the new well is a few hundred feet
from the old well.
So, in my case, they certainly drilled a separate well (but both
are producing water, albeit slowly).
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Tue, 01 Jul 2014 20:04:23 -0400:
Yes. They're all gravity fed. There's really no other way
because you can't depend on electricity in a fire anyway.
Mine is about 14 feet below the bottom of the tanks, so,
that's roughly about 1/2 an atmosphere, which is about
7 or 8 psi (which doesn't sound like much to me).
Luckily, the FD can *pump* that, but they told me at
the station they prefer the pool anyway, so, in "my"
case, they'd use the pool instead (which is more than
ten times larger anyway).
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