Jim Rusling wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:14:27 -0500:
This is the kind of advice, that, (a) isn't obvious, and (b), if you
don't know it, can win us a Darwin award.
So I greatly appreciate the tidbit, because I hadn't even thought
of the sloshing until it was mentioned.
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 04:59:41 -0700:
I wasn't even thinking about it. Sorry if that offended you.
I merely was replying, and adding pictures, and cutting and pasting,
and running outside to snap a picture, and then replying back, etc.
You must admit that I'm trying to be responsive.
What happens sometimes is that I lose my train of thought, and, that,
with the pictures and details, the replies go deeper than most, so,
it helps to break down the response into multiple posts.
I'll try to keep *all* yours together though, if it bothers you.
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:42:12 -0400:
We all have "wharf hydrants" on our property for the FD.
This is mine:
A huge portion of our tanks are "reserved" for this hydrant:
BTW, since "my" tanks seem puny at (much?) less than 5,000 gallons
(I think, based on the writing on these pipes today):
I started looking for the unincorporated Santa Clara County code,
but, so far, I only found this, which intimates 10,000 gallons
is pretty normal:
If the calculations on my pipes is correct, then I only have a
dismally puny 3,094 gallons + 1,446 gallons = 4,540 gallons
I suspect that, as long as the water tanks & wells meet the code
of unincorporated Santa Clara County, then the property values are
not adversely affected.
But, I never understood property values anyway, as houses in the
Silicon Valley that are literally a postage-stamp POS habitually
go for well over a million dollars.
Googling for the relevant residential water tank storage standards,
I see a chart on page 4 of this local Fire Department PDF:
which intimates that my 5,000 gallons is downright puny and is
the first line of the specifications, which seems to indicate that
it's the absolute bare minimum for even a very low hazard fire area:
And, it's nowhere near what is needed in my very high hazard
fire risk area, so, I must be grandfathered in from decades ago.
This document says that the second tank (which is required) is
for the fire department, but I don't think mine is hooked up
that way (I'll snap some pictures separately):
Page 6 of this document says I must connect the tanks by 4-inch
steel pipe, which is what I have currently connecting them:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:48:53 -0400:
I am positive that almost every house here has BIGGER
and MORE tanks than I do, but, I just looked at mine,
and I seem to have only a puny 5,000 gallons! :(
This document seems to apply to homes with their own water supply:
a) You must have at least 2 tanks (which I do),
b) The 2nd tank is for the hydrant (which I don't think mine is)
c) The minimum for my size home is 10,000 gallons (mine is apparently not!)
That document provides the rules on the wharf hydrant, so, I was
correct that at least one hydrant must be on *every* property
(even if they share a well like some of my neighbors apparently do).
So, I think I only have half the water I'm "supposed" to have,
since any decently sized home has to have 10,000 gallons and
mine, based on my look today, are only half of that.
But, the more disturbing thing is that my tanks don't seem to
be plumbed for one-for-the-house, the-other-for-the-hydrant.
Mine seems to be the top half is for the house, and the bottom
half is for the hydrant.
I'll snap pictures to show you after I run the test on the well
where the wells have been turned off for a couple of hours now.
(I'm going to time how long they run before drying up.)
I was quoted $3,800 for 38,000 gallons of water by this outfit:
Franks Water Service, 408-353-1343
So, out here, it's $200 for those 2,000 gallons, which
is more than double what you pay, you lucky guy!
DannyD. wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 19:59:04 +0000:
After a few hours of the circuit breakers being off, the old well
pumped for about two minutes before shutting down (which means
it's almost completely dry), but, luckily, the new well pumped
for 100 gallons before it shut down.
On the topic of the two tanks, one of which is for the fire
department hydrant, I have confirmed that mine is set up
to split horizontally across the two tanks (not by individual tank):
The incoming water from both wells merges into a single pipe
which enters the top of just one of the water tanks:
There is no other inlet, so, that water goes into both tanks:
Water exits at a single 4" pipe near the bottom of each tank:
From there, it goes to both the house & the wharf hydrant:
So, the *only* thing determining what water goes to the house
and what goes to the hydrant are the shut-off valve electronics:
Which is set to turn off the house at about 1/3 of the total water:
So, gravity feeds the hydrant; but the house is fed by the
booster pump, which turns off when 1/3 of the 4,500 gallons
is left. Interestingly, about 1 foot is about 500 gallons, so,
at the moment, I'm about 500 gallons from full:
Seems to me, if I "need" water, I can either pull it out of
the fire hydrant (which is below the house) or I can modify
the electronics (somehow) to just *not* turn off when 1/3
of the 4,550 gallons are left.
Does anyone know *how* that could be accomplished?
Interestingly, I just found out that a few of the neighbors already dug
deeper wells. It seems, anecdotally, the 200 foot wells have been drying
up over the years, and the 300 to 500 feet wells are predominating.
I don't have enough information to draw solid conclusions, but one
hypothesis would be that the water table dropped 100 feet in the past
decade or so.
1000 gallons of water on a flatbed gooseneck trailer isn't going to weigh
much more than the dry weight of most 30' fifth wheel trailers. If anyone
has a fifthwheel capable rig, hauling water shouldn't be a problem.
That's interesting, and I thank you for that number of 50 gallons/day.
I just measured my well after letting it sit for 5 hours turned off:
- Lasted 1 minute and 30 seconds before running dry!
- Lasted from 8:32pm to 8:54pm (22 minutes) before shutting off.
- It was pumping at a little more than 5 gallons a minute at first.
- And then dropped to a little less than 5 gallons a minute after 10 minutes.
- Total was 90 gallons in those 22 minutes before the pump shut down.
- So, it averaged 4 gallons per minute before shutting off.
Of course, the 200 sprinklers & the pool take their toll of water ...
I'm pretty sure they're running dry, because one, for sure, is only
running for less than 2 minutes before shutting down, even after
having been off for five hours!
Here, you see it has "tripped" by the red light:
The other well, after I allowed it to refill for 5 hours, lasted
22 minute s, but I timed the water meter and it was going at about
10 seconds faster than 5 gallons per minute at first, then about
at the halfway mark it was about 15 seconds less than five gallons
a minute, until it finally shut down at 22 minutes, averaging at
about 4 gallons per minute.
But, that was after a 5 hour quiet period. In practice, the well
*tries* to pump all day so the 'rest' period is only a half hour
or so between shutoffs.
On Sunday, June 29, 2014 1:14:13 AM UTC-4, DannyD. wrote:
You might want to consider a timer to better manage the on/off cycle.
You have a protection system on the pump, but still it can't be good
for the pump to keep starting every 30 mins to just run two mins.
I would think there is more wear/tear on the pump that way, and more
electricity used too. With a timer and some experimenting, you could
probably come up with a much more optimal cycling schedule. IDK what
the effect on the life of the pump is with the very short cycling,
but I know a timer is cheap compared to pulling and replacing a pump
on a 400ft well.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 05:14:13 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
Could any of your neighbors' pumps be pumping from the same
underground water? In other words, are your 5 hour rest periods
really rest periods? If you repeat that experiment at 5:00 am, will
the results be different? Now that I think about it, I can't even be
sure 5:00 am would make a difference since everybody's pumps might be
running 24/7 except for the shutdowns due to running dry. Sorry for
the rambling - I guess my only point is the rest periods might not be
rest periods if, for example, multiple 400' wells are using the exact
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