property with "no" water

My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with

4 acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside is pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would need to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for our family, but we could easily add a second toilet, bedroom and living room on to the east side.

Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is in a great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about $64k. It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had "no water". The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the original price by about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank obtained the property for under $50k, supposedly.

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.

Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had no problems with well water ever running out.

Looking over our water bills from the past few years, I figured out that our family uses an average of 135 gallons of water per day. (not including water for the garden, which we could get from house rainwater runoff) This means that just 1 of the wells could be pumped for 5 hours a day and give us enough water to use.

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always have a week or more of water stored up for future use? Would something like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for something like this?)

Both my wife and I liked the property and the house, despite it being on the small side. We were truly surprised at the general good condition of the interior, given the price. Everyone else is fearful because of the water situation. I am sensing that the bank may continue to lower the price of the place over the next few months before finding someone willing to risk buying a house with "no water".

We are tempted to make an offer on the place, but I'd like to hear from someone who has dealt with a similar situation before deciding whether we should go ahead.

Reply to
Ohioguy
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On 08/02/2014 5:01 PM, Ohioguy wrote: ...

Lots of things are "possible"; whether they make sense or not is another question...

I'd start with the driller and discuss why this seems so different than the (at least anecdotal) results in nearby areas. Is there any possibility of additional property or another well somewhere on the property that taps into a better formation?

How long have these wells produced; is there really any confidence they will continue even at these low rates? That would be my main concern in committing to using them as only source going forward; the storage could be solved altho that's far from an ideal situation going forward.

Also, I suppose you've checked but will the local authority if there is one issue a "certificate of occupancy" if such is required in the locality given the shortness of supply? That might end up being a 'gotcha!'.

All in all, my guess would be that you may well spend at least the difference you're saving solving the problem (or worse yet, attempting to but not being successful for long).

I'd not say "never" but I'd surely be reluctant and hope to have more solid answers on the actual water supply itself than just a hope the current trickle will continue indefinitely.

Reply to
dpb

how far away are these surrounding wells? Seems odd the big difference. You might go speak with the well driller for his thoughts.

Reply to
Pico Rico

Good idea. I'd also go to neighbors, find out who drilled their wells, go talk to those drillers too. Or failing that, other drillers in the area. Along those lines, how did this come to be? Presumably they had water at the house previously? When were the two wells there drilled? The well drillers are the ones who will know at what leve the acquifers are, if this is a common problem, etc.

Is there any

He has 4 acres, so possibly a well could be drilled somewhere at a distance from the house where the chances might be better.

+1

Excellent point.

For sure I'd play hardball on price with the bank, if I were to proceed at all. Sometimes a bargain isn't worth it.

And it really is just a trickle, 1/2 gpm.

Another factor. He said the other wells in the area were at 45 feet. I wonder if part of the problem could be that is where the easy water is, but it may no longer be legal for a potable well to be at that shallow a depth? Here NJ, you could do that for an irrigation well, but I believe the min depth for a potable well is 2x that.

Reply to
trader_4

It may not be possible to obtain a mortage on a home without adquate water. one reason is that in case of fire there may not be enough water to put out a fire

even if you pay cash you may not be able to get homeowners insurance. again the fire issue.

check with local drillers. There may be a layer of permable soil. drill too deep all the water runs out:(

of course resale value of a home without enough water will be impacted. thats good now for negoiations:)

Its possible to buy a deeprock DIY well drilling machine and do it yourself:) Last time I checked they cost under 5 grand, so buy it, drill your well, then sell the machine if you care too. or keep it and drill wells for others $$$

Reply to
bob haller

good points, but fire departments only care that there is a supply of X gallons of water for fire purposes. They don't care where it came from. So, buy one or more tanks dedicated to fire purposes, and fill them up. Hire a water truck, run your 1/2 gpm well for a month if needed, get your beer buddies to all piss in the tank - it matters not.

Reply to
Pico Rico

What you propose is commonly done in many countries.

When I lived in Veracruz, Mexico every house had a sub-surface concrete cistern of about 1000 gallons---they looked about the same as a septic tank. They had it because there was close to zero head on the municipal water supply; consequently, it was trickled into the cistern, flow being controlled by a simple float valve (same as in a toilet tank).

There was still no head so water from the cistern was pumped to another concrete tank on the roof; it held about 500 gallons and - again - flow to it was controlled by a float valve. In your case, you'd just use a pressure tank with the secondary pump from the storage tank.

Reply to
dadiOH

I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low. If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would

*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by, but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.
Reply to
CRNG

Why would he need a 10K cistern to get by? He only needs a buffer big enough to handle worst case usage. Seems to me ~1000 gal is enough, unless he's going to want to water a lawn.

Reply to
trader_4

I looked at a property one time that really had no water. The previous owners had a tank in the garage that they filled by hauling in water from some place else. It was a nice enough house but the lack of water was a big problem.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Gill

In some areas low producing wells are common. As long as the total production per day of the well(s) is a reasonable amount, it's a simple matter of installing a 1,000-2,000 gal cistern, a pump to pump from the cistern to a normal pressure tank for household use, and a controller for the well pumps. The controller runs the well pump or pumps (might need two controllers) until either the cistern is full or the well is dry (detects the pump running dry and shuts it off for a period of time). The cistern is plenty big to meet normal household demand peaks, and the wells keep up with refilling the cistern at a slower rate. Nothing exotic or to be afraid of as long as the wells are reliable if slow.

Reply to
Pete C.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so you could expect between 1,440 and

2,160 gal available per use per day. My water bill here (co-op water) for two people, laundry, some lawn watering, etc. ranges from 2,500-4,500 gal / month, or an average of 150 gal / day. I would not be at all worried about wells that can produce at least 1,440 gal / day as long as they are reliable. Low production isn't an issue with a large cistern and appropriate pump controllers.
Reply to
Pete C.

I guess the big question is how can one determine if the wells are reliable, long term? Besides asking well drillers, neighbors, anything else one can do? I would think one good thing may be that the wells are deep. If it was a 50ft well, I would think it would be more likely that the water level could decline due to changing conditions.

Reply to
trader_4

I don't think it is at all clear one _could_ expect that for the indefinite future from the limited information provided, particularly since apparently both are quite close to each other, one may well pump down the other as well. OTOH, it's quite possible they are both capable of pumping that for quite some period of time.

A lot depends on what the water source they're tapping into really is; in some places it's renewable from surface water in short time frames, in others as here it's a nonrenewable source (estimates are

Reply to
dpb

theres no guarantee that any well will not run dry. so you cant just multiply minutes in a day times well production in gallon per hour.....

Reply to
bob haller

On 08/03/2014 10:50 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

The State water folks, whoever they are in OH will undoubtedly have quite a lot of data and knowledge as well as just the locals.

It depends a lot (actually, almost entirely) on what the water source is as I just finished noting in another response...

Reply to
dpb

On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 11:10:22 -0500, dpb wrote in

Exactly. If they can average 1gpm 24/7 for the next x-years, they'll be fine and will have gotten a great bargain. If not, they will be in trouble.

Reply to
CRNG

Unless there is city water, insurance companies look more to the tankers, etc, of the local FD than water on the property. I doubt even the ones that have good pressure have any hydrants or other readily available supply (with the possible exception of a pond)

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Correct. I have heard of areas that require huge water tanks be installed just for fire protection though. Can't recall where I saw that.

It doesn't matter how good a well is, the pumps installed are not capable of pumping enough volume/pressure to do much good fighting fire. Now agricultural places running those huge sprinkler systems might be able to install a hydrant.

Our local volunteer fire departments all have tanker trucks as well as the assorted fire/rescue/ladder types and still rely in the local fertilizer plant tankers to assist.

Harry K

Reply to
Harry K

Technically? Sure. You could also look into having water delivered.

Inspections and permits would be required in most locations, especially if a mortgage on the property is involved. But that brings up a potential issue you may not have considered. Getting a mortgage on such a property will be difficult to impossible.

If you are able to purchase for cash or finance privately, you also need to consider the salability of the property in the future, which is likely to be very difficult.

Reply to
Arthur Conan Doyle

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