Tell you what I have apartment buildings I take care of which are all
concrete design and they have had fires which never where more than a
room or contents. That's the way to build if you want to keep fire
My 45 year old house has real concrete block walls in garage and real
plaster with steel mesh not dry wall like you have today. If we did
not build shit paper houses we would not need sprinklers mandated.
This whole thread is totally useless. This kind of shit is always
propagated by "safety zealots" ( If it saves OOOOOOONE life ..... )
who are quickly followed by politicians who want to get re-elected by
passing "feel good" (do nothing - unenforceable) laws.
Yeah, lets pass a law that says that everyone has to have sprinker
systems in their house. So ok ...... you can force people to install
them but you can't force them to maintain or even keep them in running
condition. Lets say a fire occurs and the sprinkler system doesn't
work because it wasn't maintained. Someone dies. Some one goes to
jail. So now what? ....Does the person who died come back to life?
No? Oh yeah, that's right. Some one gets sued and the family gets a
lot of money or the guy goes bankrupt or doesn't have the means to pay
and all of this is SUUUUUURE to make the next asshole who doesn't
want to maintain a system think twice. Yeah ..... sure that's going to
Yep ..... Uh Huh!
In the meantime, people are paying millions of dollars to install and
maintain system so that ...... what ..... a few lives a year are
saved? The safety zealots say that it's worth it? Then let them pay
This is all just as stupid as outlawing guns to law abiding people so
that the criminals wont use them to commit crimes.
Just got word from local FM on new rules to install sprinklers in
Allegheny County Pa.
1- registered master plumber only can install
2- certified flow test
3- plan by design professional that means architect or engineer
4- several water company's will not t off main line you will have to
install a separate water line to house
5- we have major pressure issues her that means pumps and tanks and
fire alarm monitoring of system
yea they can do this all for $3500.00 average WTF who came up with
that assigned figure it will be at least twice that in this county and
that's if pumps etc not involved.
needless to say new housing starts are totally flat in this county for
spring and 84 lumber located in this state just announced more store
closings and layoffs and closing of a truss manufacturing plant.
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:01:03 -0800 (PST), nick markowitz
A VFW I used to frequent was going to have to install a sprinkler system, at a
cost of over $100K. It's a one-story building, with a zillion windows and
doors, any one of which could be used in an instant. ...and no one sleeps
About 3 years ago I went through that. Prior to the start of build, builder
swore that $5K would cover the cost of the sprinklers. Mid build, revised
esitmate was $8K. Final cost was $12K.
Why? Only 2 licensed fire supression installers in county, knew they had a good
thing going, wouldn't agree to a binding contract in advance.
Are you saying that you can identify a specific instance of a multiple
fatality fire in a property that is protected by a complete automatic
fire sprinkler system. A yes or no answer would be appreciated.
I'm not saying that at all. I don't know one way or another. The
original post, below, says nothing about the presence or absence of a
sprinkler system. It just says there are no records of multiple
deaths. I'm guessing now the intention was to say in locations with
sprinklers but that's not in the post.
Then some one was emptying those traps or all are in warm environment
but any dry system you open around here you will find water I have 38
systems I keep an eye on and all 38 can not be put in wrong different
installers and different years all use compressed air only one I do
not have to screw with is one that has a nitrogen tank on it.
I maintain the air system in a darkroom and get water in it as well
and it has all kinds of traps filters etc but we still have to have
desiccant units at the discharge points so air is clean and dry and
does not cause problems when blowing off negatives.
Like I said I have phone numbers of techs ,sprinkler guys and FM who
will tell you same thing all the dry systems around here need drained
at least monthly some time bi monthly or your in trouble.during the
maybe not this month maybe not 3-4 months but you will have a problem.
It is the nature of the beast here.
Where would you ,like me to send you all the FD and insurance reports.
You also forget your talking a military installation to a civilian one
that's a very big difference. Military always uses highest grade of
materials etc and idiot proofs everything.
unfortunately my brother in law who was CPO and a communications
officer on a sub found out when he came back to civilian life his
skills did not easily transfer back we do things way differently in
civilian life than in the military.
I see it all the time with guys who are highly skilled military people
who skills do not transfer back It is a dam shame.
But its like apples and oranges.
Some come home and get easily employed while many do not depending
what you did for the military.
You were the one spouting numbers... 20 per year... I am not going
guess, it is up to you to back your statistics and conclusion reached
a very shaky and recent data set to say that the requirements for
in bathrooms and other damp locations had NO effect at all on the
of fatalities... All I claimed was that such things would not be
there was not a trend of accidents...
You want to use statistics you need to use them properly and have
to more than a few years of data to make such concrete claims...
Its all on you Smitty... Either find those numbers going back say to
time when homes were mostly electrified or admit you only looked up
the most recent numbers which BEST supported your statements and
I have seen GFCI prevent many accidents over the years but I have also
seen them bypassed as well.
where back to the people who get zapped are the ones using frayed
extension cords or cords with grounds cut off and plugged in back
wards etc etc.
Every time you read an electrocution report in any of the trade
magazines the individual has done something to cause the accident.
latest article was on a farm where pressure washer was totally
corroded safety shields off and no ground and gfci bypassed wonder
why some one died.
So exactly what is the "maintenance" on a basic sprinkler system? I'm
asking because I'm installing sprinklers in the garage I'm building.
I ran water pipes off the main cold coming in and I bought some of
those sprinklers with the little expansion glass pieces in the
centers. You certainly can't test tripping one of them because then
you have to replace it.
In our neck of the woods you'd require a back-flow preventer on your
sprinkler system to avoid contamination of the domestic supply. That
has to be inspected annually. Check with your local AHJ regarding any
further requirements. You may be required to interconnect your smoke
alarms to a flow switch. If it's a heated garage and depending on your
location, you may require a low temperature alarm. In fact it might not
be a bad idea to have one anyway and interconnect it to your monitored
Re the bridge analogy- did they replace the bridge not only to save
lives but also to have a bridge in operation? If an old bridge falls
down not only do people die but you've got to replace the bridge
anyway, and in the years it takes to do that you've got no bridge.
Good point, about bridge availability.
But the probability of the entire bridge failing is small.
Plus California has speciality contractors that excel at putting
bridges & freeways back into service VERY quickly.
You can buy a lot of "down time" for $10 billion.
And you have to factor in the probability of failure over time (ie
probability of failure on a per year basis)
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