Automatic fire sprinklers

[dpb]

...

In many (most???) respects we already do... :(

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[jamesgangnc]

e is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."

I'm not saying that at all. I don't know one way or another. The original post, below, says nothing about the presence or absence of a sprinkler system. It just says there are no records of multiple deaths. I'm guessing now the intention was to say in locations with sprinklers but that's not in the post.

[nick markowitz]

ree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."

Then some one was emptying those traps or all are in warm environment but any dry system you open around here you will find water I have 38 systems I keep an eye on and all 38 can not be put in wrong different installers and different years all use compressed air only one I do not have to screw with is one that has a nitrogen tank on it. I maintain the air system in a darkroom and get water in it as well and it has all kinds of traps filters etc but we still have to have desiccant units at the discharge points so air is clean and dry and does not cause problems when blowing off negatives. Like I said I have phone numbers of techs ,sprinkler guys and FM who will tell you same thing all the dry systems around here need drained at least monthly some time bi monthly or your in trouble.during the winter. maybe not this month maybe not 3-4 months but you will have a problem. It is the nature of the beast here. Where would you ,like me to send you all the FD and insurance reports.

[nick markowitz]

fires, it may

tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."

You also forget your talking a military installation to a civilian one that's a very big difference. Military always uses highest grade of materials etc and idiot proofs everything. unfortunately my brother in law who was CPO and a communications officer on a sub found out when he came back to civilian life his skills did not easily transfer back we do things way differently in civilian life than in the military. I see it all the time with guys who are highly skilled military people who skills do not transfer back It is a dam shame. But its like apples and oranges. Some come home and get easily employed while many do not depending what you did for the military.

[mleuck]

I'd go even farther and outlaw electricity to the house, someone here once said "If it saves ONE life it's worth it" so......

[nick markowitz]

Tell you what I have apartment buildings I take care of which are all concrete design and they have had fires which never where more than a room or contents. That's the way to build if you want to keep fire from spreading. My 45 year old house has real concrete block walls in garage and real plaster with steel mesh not dry wall like you have today. If we did not build shit paper houses we would not need sprinklers mandated.

[Jim]

This whole thread is totally useless. This kind of shit is always propagated by "safety zealots" ( If it saves OOOOOOONE life ..... ) who are quickly followed by politicians who want to get re-elected by passing "feel good" (do nothing - unenforceable) laws.

Yeah, lets pass a law that says that everyone has to have sprinker systems in their house. So ok ...... you can force people to install them but you can't force them to maintain or even keep them in running condition. Lets say a fire occurs and the sprinkler system doesn't work because it wasn't maintained. Someone dies. Some one goes to jail. So now what? ....Does the person who died come back to life? No? Oh yeah, that's right. Some one gets sued and the family gets a lot of money or the guy goes bankrupt or doesn't have the means to pay and all of this is SUUUUUURE to make the next asshole who doesn't want to maintain a system think twice. Yeah ..... sure that's going to happen. Yep ..... Uh Huh!

In the meantime, people are paying millions of dollars to install and maintain system so that ...... what ..... a few lives a year are saved? The safety zealots say that it's worth it? Then let them pay for it.

This is all just as stupid as outlawing guns to law abiding people so that the criminals wont use them to commit crimes.

[Doug]

Thanks for clearing that up Mark, it all makes sense to me now.

Doug

[Ashton Crusher]

See how it affects your home insurance rate and that will tell you.

[nick markowitz]

I have seen GFCI prevent many accidents over the years but I have also seen them bypassed as well. where back to the people who get zapped are the ones using frayed extension cords or cords with grounds cut off and plugged in back wards etc etc. Every time you read an electrocution report in any of the trade magazines the individual has done something to cause the accident. latest article was on a farm where pressure washer was totally corroded safety shields off and no ground and gfci bypassed wonder why some one died.

[jamesgangnc]

So exactly what is the "maintenance" on a basic sprinkler system? I'm asking because I'm installing sprinklers in the garage I'm building. I ran water pipes off the main cold coming in and I bought some of those sprinklers with the little expansion glass pieces in the centers. You certainly can't test tripping one of them because then you have to replace it.

[Jim]

I like that.

Thanks, I just may use that when the opportunity presents itself.

[nick markowitz]

Just got word from local FM on new rules to install sprinklers in Allegheny County Pa.

1- registered master plumber only can install 2- certified flow test 3- plan by design professional that means architect or engineer 4- several water company's will not t off main line you will have to install a separate water line to house 5- we have major pressure issues her that means pumps and tanks and fire alarm monitoring of system yea they can do this all for $3500.00 average WTF who came up with that assigned figure it will be at least twice that in this county and that's if pumps etc not involved. needless to say new housing starts are totally flat in this county for spring and 84 lumber located in this state just announced more store closings and layoffs and closing of a truss manufacturing plant.

[krw]

A VFW I used to frequent was going to have to install a sprinkler system, at a cost of over $100K. It's a one-story building, with a zillion windows and doors, any one of which could be used in an instant. ...and no one sleeps there.

[Dean Hoffman]

The number of foreclosures will supposedly hit a peak this year. Article here:

[Robert Neville]

About 3 years ago I went through that. Prior to the start of build, builder swore that $5K would cover the cost of the sprinklers. Mid build, revised esitmate was $8K. Final cost was $12K.

Why? Only 2 licensed fire supression installers in county, knew they had a good thing going, wouldn't agree to a binding contract in advance.

[DD_BobK]

Why not?

Because cost needs to be considered.

Is the cost of all the systems divided by the number of lives saved ($ / life) a reasonable number.

Of course, the emotional reaction is........ it's worth it if it saves one life or the life of someone I care about.

But expenditures like this don't take place in a vacuum.... could the same amount of money be spent per capita and yield a greater number of lives saved?

California has spent ~$10 billion (& counting) to replace the Oakland bay Bridge. Failure of a single span killed one person. ..... one person in 50 years.

If the entire bridge had failed it possibly could have killed a few hundred?

So the taxpayers of CA are saving lives at $25,000,000 per life?

There are about 2500 deaths & 13,000 injuries per year in the US from house fires. How many of these deaths & injuries might mandatory fire sprinklers prevent?

At what cost?

Could we get more bang for our buck elsewhere? How about a mandatory GFCI retrofit in the US every residential unit as well as commercial space?

I wonder if that would be money better spent.

cheers Bob

[Frank Kurz]

In our neck of the woods you'd require a back-flow preventer on your sprinkler system to avoid contamination of the domestic supply. That has to be inspected annually. Check with your local AHJ regarding any further requirements. You may be required to interconnect your smoke alarms to a flow switch. If it's a heated garage and depending on your location, you may require a low temperature alarm. In fact it might not be a bad idea to have one anyway and interconnect it to your monitored security system.

[Shaun Eli]

Re the bridge analogy- did they replace the bridge not only to save lives but also to have a bridge in operation? If an old bridge falls down not only do people die but you've got to replace the bridge anyway, and in the years it takes to do that you've got no bridge.

[Cindy Hamilton]

So, about how many people have any kind of security system in their house? They're pretty rare here in small-town Midwest.

Cindy Hamilton