Sawstop delivered!

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Mike, you certainly a level headed view of the situation but visit an ER or an occupational emergency clinic and talk to one of the doctors on hand. Because this is not really sensational, you will seldom hear of the accidents on the news. After my accident it seems everyone that I talked to that are in the trades have a story to tell about an accident and more often than not the accident included a tool with a circular blade. Typically the hand injuries were with the TS. It was not until I understood the actual number of injuries involving a TS that I began to believe that it was more a matter of time over skill. 15 years ago the local ER that I ended up at gave me some figures to ponder. The ER plastic surgeon that worked on me indicated that the TS accidents are quite common and he himself probably saw an injury daily. He estimated at least 1,000 yearly in that location alone.
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Well, I'll have to do something about that...

In matters like these, I base a lot of what I feel on 12 years of experience as a Trauma and Cardiac Medic where I attended to all sorts of accidents and results from stupidity. Not all of what I believe, but it is a factor. I've taken in traumatic amputations, and all sorts of deep cuts. Most seemed to have been from circular saws if I remember correctly. The nastyist were from chain saws. Most of the circular saw accidents I saw were (again - working from recall here), contractors who got too casual in the use of their tools, were cut in associating with some form of falling or losing balance with the tool in hand, or believe it or not - from too much beer in the cooler. You typically didn't see the later on a real job site, but it was common enough when the pro was doing some weekend work with the buddies.

to
often
the
a
saw
alone.
An injury a day would nothing short of surprise me. Shock me even. Perhaps astound me. Ok, so I'm easily moved. Nonetheless, you must live in a pretty large metro area I would guess, in order to see that type of injury level. Maybe not - just struck me as a high number.
FWIW, my thoughts on the sawstop concept are kind of mixed. I certainly do not care for the forced approach they are taking, though the Capitalist in me can admire it to a degree. The rebel in me is in conflict with that when I realize it could affect me personally. I'm not really against the design concept, though I've been around long enough to be wary or big promises, demos, etc. I am certainly in the "wait and see what it really proves to be" mode right now. I'd hope they could come up with an alternative design that is less destructive. I'm really not a big fan of how brutal this thing is in it's approach. I can see a lot of damage to some pretty good table saws coming from this type of approach. Maybe not. Time will tell. A lot of good designs didn't start out as elegant as they evolved to be, and that could well be the case with this product. I'm interested in seeing what release 2.7 or 3.14.2.79 brings. The only other real objection I have right now is that it *seems* (admittedly, I have only taken a couple of token looks at this thing) that they are heavily leveraging the fears of woodworkers and gouging pretty good on the prices. As much as I believe in safety, and in profit, there is no need to take the consumer to the cleaners. Again - time and production may help that problem.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@sprintmail.com
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Mike, I live in Houston.
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"Leon" wrote in message

saw
alone.
One of my BIL's, who is currently an ER physician, refers to woodworking tools, and the table saw in particular, as "job security".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
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Swingman, are you getting snow this morning? Twice my house has be under heavy snow. The snow storm is inconsistent in intensity but I am of firm belief that the situation will get worse and I strongly suggest that you monitor the situation. Chocolate Lab ran out into the yard and came whimpering back to the shelter I was under. She was covered with 2 flakes of snow and a closer inspection revealed 3 specs of sleet. Internet radar is showing NOTHING!!!!!...... This concerns me greatly as I know what kind of whollup we are in for. Radar sure would make this less scary......
..........
.. .
;~)
ROTFLMAO...........
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Yeah, but that's a pretty skewed perspective. Psychiatrists think everyone is crazy, cops think everyone is a crook, etc. ER physicians have some funny biases, I used to know one who referred to motorcycles as "murdercycles". Hardly true and shows an obvious bias that makes me question his opinion on a lot of other subjects as well.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Tim Douglass responds:

True. When I was a youngster riding motorcycles, my mother was an ER nurse. A lot easier to stay away from her place than to go listen.
Charlie Self "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
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Not murdercycles, rather they are DonorCycles as long as the rider has a organ donor card
John
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:24:19 -0800, Tim Douglass

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John john responds:

Back in the '50s and well into the '60s, at least, no one had an organ donor card.
Charlie Self "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
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donor
They weren't doing near as many transplants either.
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Yup. It's probably not a coincidence that Wisconsin is a "voluntary helmet" state, _and_ is one of the highest sources of donated organs due to head injury patients.
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wrote:

A friend that works at the local hospital indicates that helmets "mostly" make the body identifiable.
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Leon responds:

Simply not true. I've been spit off motorcycles in a variety of situations, usually with no result other than some bruises and cuts and a minor cracked bone or two. I can think of a half dozen instances where a helmet saved my life, while the rest of me got sore, but healed quickly.
For anyone who has trouble believing that, I suggest you watch a non-stadium motocross or a top road race or six. When you see riders in road races going down at 80 and 90 mph, theng etting up to try to start their mangled bikes, you'll begin to understand the value of helmets (and maybe, just maybe, such a view will discourage those who wear shorts and thonged sandals while riding).
Charlie Self "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
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Charlie Self wrote:

What always bugs me is a pretty girl riding on the back of a bike in halter-top and hot pants with no helmet. Seems to me that if the rider cared about her he'd take more care with her. After he drops the bike she's probably not going to be so pretty anymore.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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.

Usually the pro's are wearing leather suits that literally keep the body parts from being slung or torn off. Most bike riders you see on the street are not wearing leather and freeway accidents are not pretty.
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Leon responds:

Which is the reason I mentioned thonged sandals and shorts. That is not the fault of the motorcycle. That is the fault of human stupidity, plus an ever present concept that the person going around half naked on a bike is "special" and it will never happen to him, or her. Sane riders dress appropriately, though seldom in full racing leathers...but, then, they seldom run full racing speeds.
Charlie Self "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
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I am not disputing your comments Charlie. I had 3 motorcycles myself and most the accidents that I had were in a parking lot or some one running into me when I was stopped. Its just that if you get hit by a car on the freeway and you loose control I do not think that there is going to be much hope of surviving unless you see the situation happening and can prepare for the fall. I always wore leather boots with leather soles as I did not want my feet getting any traction when they touched to pavement and the bike was moving at any rate of speed. Living in Houston also may be the reason for my friends comment about the helmet making body identification easier. The riders were usually hit by another car or 2 after the collision.
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"Charlie Self" wrote in message the

ever
"special"
I would call that a "delusion", instead of a concept.
My Harley Sportser was stolen many years ago and, after so many close calls, I decided not to replace it. Starting to think that there are some things old farts just shouldn't do.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
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Leon wrote:

"Saw an injury daily" and "saw a serious, disabling injury daily" are not the same. According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission there are about 30,000 table-saw injuries per year that result in an emergency-room visit. That includes "walked into corner of table and busted balls", "slipped and banged head on table", "was wearing safety glasses, nonetheless managed to get splinter in eye", etc. If he's claiming 1000 amputations a year in his location he needs to call the CPSC right away because according to them he's seeing a third of all of them that occur in the US.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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The orthopedic surgeon who worked on my finger when I had my table saw injury specializes in fingers and toes. He said his number one source of business was due to feet going into lawn mowers, but his number two was table saw injuries. This guy isn't just an ER doctor, he is the specialist they called from the ER when they needed to put my finger back together, so he isn't talking about the people who bang their head on their saw. My injury probably didn't qualify as an "amputation" since it wasn't totally cut off, but it was nonetheless more serious than bumping into the corner of the table or whatever. I guess I'm saying that there are probably lots and lots of serious injuries that are not "amputations" every year. My injury for instance was about as trivial as one could hope for when a hand goes into a table saw blade, but it was still pretty awful and cost about $6000 by the time I was done with it. This guy who worked on me serves Cambridge and Somerville (Boston metro area), which have a combined population of ~175,000. -Holly
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