Competition for SawStop ?

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wrote

That would be tedious and a waste of time and will introduce a lot of inconsitancy if cutting 30-50+ dado's in draw bottoms.
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The saw wasn't turned on??? Then how would the SawStop have helped? I'd be interested in learning about that accident. Seriously. As a paramedic for several years, I saw a lot of accidents. The worst accident I've had in the shop (in over forty years) was when I was cutting a slim piece of plastic off the edge of a 2'X4' piece (for a recessed fluorescent light) I was using one of those notorious "razor" knives, utility knife, whatever. I cut a nasty gash in my left thumb. But I must confess to having had 3 beers on a hot afternoon. That was about twenty years ago. Never again. I perceive of a good many more potentials in the shop for accidents compared to the likelihood of my contacting the moving blade on my table saw. It's a question (to me) of priorities. I have no doubt that the SawStop is a fine product. It might even end up being a requirement by OSHA. It would certainly be a recommended item in a woodworking school. But considering the odds of me: 1. winning the lottery 2. pushing my finger into a spinning saw blade. I choose to forego the expenditure.
Max
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wrote

The motor does not have to be running for the SawStop to work. The blade was still spinning down after the cut. I was reaching over to lift the rip fence off the table after cutting a dado. Just the coast down speed did the damage.

Just keep in mind that the accident that happens is the one that is not planned for. No one could believe that I could have had the accident that I had. The lesson I learned was to never look away from a machine or blade that is still moving whether you are actually doing a procedure or not.
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Geez, Leon, I learned *that* lesson around 1948 while in a shop class in high school. Safety begins with the operator.
I appreciate the attitude and concern of so many of the posters here but I still believe in "To each his own".
Thanks, Max
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wrote

The point I am trying to make is that you should never actually believe that everything that you know is going to guarantee your safety 100%. You should always realize that you are human and can make a mistake or have a lapse in judgement.
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I spent 33 years in the FD. I retired and opened a building inspection business inspecting businesses for insurance companies. I operated that business for 25 years. I have a bit of a notion about risk management. (which is the point *I'm* trying to make) Every individual has a different level of risk........it's human nature. Surely you've heard the expression, "He/she is accident prone". It's actually true. Some people cut themselves more than average. Some stumble and fall. Some run into things,.... ad infinitum. In my judgment and in my case only, I consider the SawStop an excessive expense. For me. I don't think you can imagine my disgust with the device in the extremely unlikely event that it "triggered" on a "false" event. I would be tempted to use a cutting torch on the whole machine. *IF* the expense of repairs was minimal (less than $50) and the repair time was on the order of 1/2 hour or less, I *might* be tempted. *Provided* that the saw itself was, in my opinion, worth the investment. I don't mean to denigrate the saw or the device. I'm just saying that it doesn't fit *my* needs. Anyone else must make their own decision.
Max
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wrote

I am not trying to sell you any thing and am not suggesting that you buy any safety equipment. I am only saying that only a naive person thinks that he knows enough to prevent every possible scenario that could lead to an accident.
Now if you have never ever had an accident or cut yourself with a nife or any similar object I'd say that you were 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000, but I doubt you all in that percentile.
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wrote

I hear you, Leon. I'm not sure you're hearing *me*. I cannot avoid *all* unfortunate circumstances. What if on my next trip to the lumber yard someone in the oncoming traffic has a blowout and crosses the line and hits me head-on? I might suggest that the odds are shorter of that happening than the odds of me sticking my hand into a spinning saw blade. It's all about risk management. You choose how to manage those risks you recognize. I recognize the possibility of having an accident with my table saw (and a myriad of other risks in my shop) The cost/benefit ratio of the SawStop does not appeal to me. I have already stated what costs would alter the ratio. Let me repeat: I recognize the hazards. I recognize that I am *not* immune. I choose to manage my risk differently than you do. But, again, I do appreciate your advice and apparent concern.
Max
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wrote

;~) I understand your position on the matter and agree with your logic. I must have misunderstood you from the beginning and , well you know...
I incorrecetly compared you to a few that I have seen in the past in this group that seriousely believed that they were incapable of having an accident because they knew all the safety rules and followed them with out deviation and that they had no reason to believe that that situation would ever change.
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I agree completely. One must recognize the potential for disaster in order to avoid..........or mitigate.....it. <G>
Max
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Max wrote:

I applaud the quality of your summary, whether the cost/benefit ratio makes sense for me or not. Of course, I think there is something in people which perhaps colors their perceptions of their chances of getting hurt--especially with a few thousand dollars on the line. I like to think that for the sake of a few thousand dollars I'm willing to be extra careful, but I know I'm not perfect. I also expect I'm not going to be spending hundreds of hours at my TS. Maybe there will soon be some additional choices in the marketplace--they can't be too far off.
Bill
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Good point. A proper attitude is essential.
I like

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snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net says...

Saw an interesting statistic. Most fatal amputations occur in automobile accidents.
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?

Holy Crap! I'm taking the table saw out of the back seat.
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wrote

ROFC
(Rolling On Floor Choking - I just knew teaching the cats the Heimlich maneuver would pay off!)
--
"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! "
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I saw a statistic that people that point out statistics in totally unrelated areas are arguing emotionally.
The fact that you feel a need to respond to someone saying in a kindly way that they manage their risks differently means you are not handling those emotions at all well.
R
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Leon wrote:

Yes, but there are all kinds of mishaps that can lead to all kinds of accidents. SawStop helps prevent basically one sort.
Some people mentioned accidents with a TS blade even though the blade wasn't moving. Are these the result of reaching across the blade or falling on it in some way? I honestly never considered those possibilities.
The salesman at Woodcraft say that the Sawstop is better than the Unisaw even without the safety features. BTW, the "industrial model" (30" wide table) is $4500, and the "professional model" (w/27" table) is closer to $2900. Mobile bases are an extra $200, or $300 for the "hydraulic" version. Salesman was not aware of any differences between the industrial and professional models beyond the size of the table and the location of the blade adjustment cranks. At this juncture, I am not seriously considering spending $4500 on a TS anyway. One needs to draw the line somewhere...lol.
Bill

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LOL,,, If not careful a new Forrest WWII can cut you while you are simply trying to mount it for the first time. Spend enough time in the shop and you will learn a way to cut your self with a stationary blade when you least expect it. ;~) Stepping out into the shop is a risk.

Mobile bases are an extra $200, or $300 for the "hydraulic"

I would think there would be more to it than that, perhaps a comparison of the trunions.
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On 1/22/2011 11:13 PM, Bill wrote:

NEVER, repeat, NEVER put faith in what _any_ salesman tells you, regardless (and particularly in woodworking/hobby stores) ... the ten percent of the time they may be even close to right will not make up for the 99% they are not. ;)
Always consider motive ...
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On 1/23/2011 8:26 AM, Swingman wrote:

Whenever I take an interest in some field of endeavor, I try to learn as much as I can about it, and until I do, I don't open my mouth and claim to be any sort of expert. As a woodworker and a musician (ok, a DRUMMER) with several decades of experience under my belt, I do know a thing or two but I still don't claim to be an expert. Because of those interests, Woodcraft and Guitar Center are two retail stores where I can sometimes be found browsing the merchandise. It never ceases to amaze me how simply being an employee at one of those places automatically makes you a genius, and I can't count the number of times I've been automatically treated as a rank amateur by some idiot salesman who thinks he knows everything. I just love putting people like that in their place. :-)
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