Re: New Electrical Regulations

Page 6 of 13  
Richard wrote:

Ah. Don't have time to read EVERY reference sadly.
That seems not inconsistent with common sense. However it still does not prove. let alone imply, a causal connection.
It could be that it coincided with an unusually hot summer, and a world cup victory, with more drink pedestrians and cyclists staggering around (than usual).
I always like the old question 'how can the incidence of drawn test matches affect the size of tree ring growth' It turns out they are both likely due to unusually wet summers.
An interesting statistic, that sadly,proves nothing. What, for example, is the standard deviation on pedestrian and cyclist death in the years prior to and subsequent of this survey?
If anything, it might show that motorists who feel secure (i.e. by adhering slavishly to speed limits) are more likley to mow down pedestrians.
There. I can spin it as well as any BBC reporter or government communications officer.
I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT DOSSIER!!!

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And I read - > I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT DOSSER!!!
Ho hum
Rod
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David wrote:

There is a certaon Darwinian aptness to that.

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (David) wrote:

Yup. It's why I don't wear a seatbelt when driving.
Refs: "Target Risk" by Prof Gerald J.S. Wilde [PDE Publications, 1994] "Risk" by Dr John Adams [Taylor and Francis, 1995]
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(David) wrote:

Just as long as you also put a notice on your car to paramedics/Police etc to not waste the additional NHS resources on patching you up after an accident. Though - that's assuming you survive any crash... ;)
Oh, and make sure you turn off any air-bag that you may have fitted. Airbags are only safe if you're using a seatbelt. Not having a seatbelt may well blow/burn your face off in even of an accident happening and you being thrown forward onto the wheel.
Personally, I would be less reckless and just drive safer and more carefully. If you need to not wear a seatbelt just so that you drive more carefully, then you're a bad driver. There's plenty of good drivers out there who wear a belt, and also watch out for pedestrians and other vulnerable road users.
Generally, as a whole, maybe people will drive more less carefully after wearing belts - but that shouldn't mean that individuals who are aware of this fact, and also try to drive safely, can't buck that trend.
You may also find that if they re-did the research now, things may be different. Initially, maybe people did drive more dangerously after seatbelts were required - but now, seatbelts are as much a part of driving as checking the car's out of gear before starting or adjusting your mirrors.
Incidentally, the only people I see around here who don't wear seatbelts are the boy racers zooming up and down the highstreet/main roads at significantly above the speed limit. I must admit though, I have little concern about them not wearing their belts - karma comes to mind... ;) Though of course - that's a wrong attitude to take and it'll be people like my wife and her friends who will have to patch them up after any accidents.
D
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Th point is I am reducing the probability of having an accident in the first place and thus reducing the probability of others being injured.

Unfortunately, it's not under your control. I suggest you look at either of the references I gave you.

Everyone behaves the same. It's got nothing to do with whether I'm a "bad driver" or not.

Indeed. And if they aren't wearing one, they are even more cautious. It's innate.

No. That's the point. They don't. They drive less carefully.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what it means.

Nope. cf recent identical effect demonstrated with German taxi drives and abs.

The point is, your wife and her friends are going to see anyone because of me precisely because I don't wear a belt when driving.
Can I once again suggest you look up either of the references I gave above since at the moment you seem to have a very shakey and inadequate understanding of what's involved?
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Then you haven't looked properly.

Where did you think that I said that?

Correct. Whatever such individual driver "consciously" tries, the fact remains that she will drive less carefully because of the aforesaid "risk compensation" - generally known as the risk homeostasis effect.
Thus by not wearing a seat belt, I am increasing the probability of serious injury or death to myself. BUT, I am reducing the probability of having an accident in the first place and thus both decreasing the likelihood of ever being involved in an accident and thus I am reducing the risk to other road users.
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(David) wrote:

about
he
and
the
At the end of your last post! Quoting the end of this/your post:
"BUT, I am reducing the probability of having an accident in the first place"

seatbelt.
the
serious
ever
road
Anyway - I dispute the fact that you claim that a driver, by putting on a seat belt, cannot drive as well as he would have done had he not worn a seatbelt - *even if he consciously tries to*
I could agree with everything you said had it not been for you not accepting that a driver can consciously drive carefully whilst wearing a seatbelt.
Maybe its best to agree to disagree... ;)
D
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David Hearn wrote:

"stop you having an accident" (which is what you said) is not the same as "reducing the probability of having an accident" (which is what he said).
R.
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Thank you. It was beginning to feel like addressing an insane person.
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Very Good. Why do you think that says not what it says but instead "not wearing a seatbelt will stop you from having an accident in the first place?" It doesn't say that it says: "reducing the probability of having an accident in the first place" not lowering that probability to zero. It doesn't "stop you having an accident". It merely reduces the probability of you having one.
Jeez.
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???
It might be for some but it's an argument I've never understood.
And I'm not convinced by statistics, even those which show that women are safer drivers than men!
Mary
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No. It is for everyone.

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It's
You know that for sure?
You've observed ALL the belted and non-belted drivers in the world during every one of their journeys?
Cor.
Mary
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The science - of which I have read a great deal over the last 20 years - is convincing.
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Hi Simon Gardner In you wrote:

Omniprescent? Or just relying on generalisations, as all statisticians do?
--
Fishter
unhook to mail me | http://www.fishter.org.uk /
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Mary Fisher wrote:

What amazes me about those who feel that they are safer without belts (because THEY are driving safely) is that they forget that there are others out there who may not be driving safely, and can ram into them or otherwise cause an accident.
Sheila
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I am living proof that seat belts are not always safer
--
geoff

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but on the whole, more lives are saved by seatbelts than those lost so in general it's a good idea to wear one.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk (adder) wrote:

Proof, please.
All the evidence I have seen says this isn't true. The fatalties are merely transferred (because of seat belts) from car drivers to other road users.
So what is your source for this claim?
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