AArgh... neighbors

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No, Ann. You turned it into being about property owners rights. Toni was posting that her inconsiderate new neighbors just cut the tree down one day with not even as much as a notice. If they have an ounce of civility, they'd have gone over to her and told her. This is not about property rights, it's about being a human being, living among other human beings and having some self-awareness and how we impact others.

Where it can be cut down at any time.
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Sorry, Vic, it's about property owners' rights. Doesn't make it right, but that's what it comes down to.

Yes, it can.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:30:44 +0100, Janet Baraclough

I am the current owner of my land. I decide what will happen while I own it.
I have aerial photos of my land that go back 70 years. During the interim it has been field, forest, and thanks to me, field again. Which way should it be? That is decided by the owner.

The owner decides what is special. To each as he sees fit.
People are transient, so are their decisions. The forest is patient and will do what forests do.
JMHO
John
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No doubt most property owners in the US have every right to cut down trees or eliminate all vegetation and pave everything over. My question is, what about stewardship for that which we own/control? I my mind, that is a larger issue than a neighbor losing a shady area. For anyone who thinks that cutting a tree down, especially in an urban area, is no big deal, perhaps it would be worthwhile to look into why other folks think trees are so valuable.
But, as I mentioned earlier, it will take another 30 years to replace that tree. Beside the loss of shade, I definitely got the impression that the OP was also upset because the neighbors cut the tree down in one week without considering the short AND long term effect (in the OP's mind anyway).
Just my take on the subject............
Suzy O
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Remember, Janet, that this is a country where some people interpret our constitution to mean that you can do anything you damned well please, as long as it's within the law. So, try telling someone with a fat SUV that it's silly to own one if they don't actually need a truck-type vehicle for towing or other similar purpose that's appropriate to such a vehicle. Probably half the time, the response will be "Oh....it's OK...I can afford the gasoline". They'll completely miss the point that it's obscene to waste resources. The other typical response, if you mention air quality, is that "those environmentalists have yet to prove blah blah blah....".
The trees have an uphill battle on their hands.
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Hah, I'm not falling for that old trick to get rid of me. I know at least half of the fat SUV persons will reply "I have the right to bear arms, lady, and I guess from your cute liddle accent you don't, which makes you a loser in this here international discussion. BANG"

Do American trees have the right to bear arms too? Or just nuts and fruits?
Janet
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Most of the fruits I've met don't bear arms, although considering the attitude of the nuts, they might want to reconsider. :-)
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:00:56 +0100, Janet Baraclough

I have a huge Expedition SUV. It's been paid for since the day I bought it. I will drive it till it can't drive any more. I don't feel silly driving it, but the next vehicle I buy will definitely be a hybrid and I will be more considerate of my decisions in the future.
I do use my SUV to haul and move things about, but I believe I can always rent a truck for that. Or, my neighbor's and I share my power washer and I have several open ended loan offers for trucks, hedge trimmers, etc. We barter and that way we all have everything we all need. So I can borrow a truck when I need one when I eventually get rid of this one.
V
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Rock on!
Suzy O
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:30:44 +0100, Janet Baraclough

My answer is no. I feel I definitely own the land I live on, but ownership to me means I have been given the rights to be the steward, not the destructor of what I like and don't like because it's mine.
We are going to be removing a Palo Verde tree in the fall because where it came up (after we moved in on its own...probably some seeds in the compost we bought) and is next to the pool. It constantly drops flowers and tiny leaves and pollen all summer. However, that is not the giant live oak with a trunk having a 5 foot diameter which also poops off tons and tons of leaves, twigs, and assorted other crap into the pool. I would never do anything to harm that tree. An arborist told us that tree, along with the other three on our property are approximately 300 years old. I cherish those trees. People who live in New England where the sun doesn't bake soil till it cracks have no real idea how trees are valued by people in the south.
If I recall, Toni the original poster lives in the deep south. To remove a tree down there is almost a tragedy. But like I said, everybody has their issue and eventually it gets hit.
Victoria
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says...

BS! Almost everything we do has a beneficial affect on some and an adverse affect on others. We have zoning laws to keep a business from going up in a residential neighborhood. We have noise and junk abatement laws. And that's about as much interference with property rights as there should be. If I want to chop down all my trees and plant pink flamingos, that's my business.

And folks say that socialism is dead :-).
--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

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Would it bother you if your neighbor across the street parked an old car on his lawn, left it there to rust for 5 years, and for whatever reason, there was absolutely no way you could block the view using plants, fence, etc?
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When I bought my house the next door neighbors basically had a junkyard in their backyard. Dead washers, dryers, three rusting tin sheds, a couple junk trucks, all kinds of tires, etc. Oh well. I loved my house. They've moved on, new people live there now, they've cleaned it up, life goes on. It's amazing what you can live with when it really doesn't affect your basic life functions, like eating, drinking, etc. Of course I'd rather not look at junk, but I'm not paying their taxes or their mortgage. It's basically none of my business.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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expounded:

You are so right!
My neighbor across the back fence has at least half a dozen rusted out old cars in his back yard. They were there when I move in and the neighbor nor his junk cars has caused me any problems in the last three years.
The man I bought this property from said he had checked with the local government and as long as the vehicles are hidden by a front fence, they can do nothing about it.
Except for the junk cars, he keeps his home and yard in nice condition.
As I mentioned in a previous post, many things could be much worst.
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Another way of looking at is the Garden concept of borrowed scenery. Some time you can include mount Fuji in your garden view. I'd hazard a guess not many of us can. So we plant according. No rusting junk about here just many bored barking dogs.
Bill
--
Garden Shade Zone 5 in a Japanese Jungle manner.
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worse than junk in my opinion... you can look away/go inside to get away from junk... barking will penetrate the walls. (ok.. so you can use earplugs... but that's more excessive i think)
sigh..
--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
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Don't you have an animal control resource, and local ordnances which address barking dogs?
writes:

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I imagine that there are... but i'd want to take the step of talking to the neighbor first--- and for me, that would mean keeping an infraction diary so i can point out specific instances so i can answer questions of "when?!" --- which comes down to too much work at this level of annoyance. I was mostly commiserating with Mr Wagner.
All in all, I think It bothers my wife more than it does me... but even I was upset over the the various 3-6 am extended (> 10 minutes) barking sessions. (the neighbor works odd hours). Usually by morning I have better things to do than track the neighbor down.
It hasn't been quite as bad lately (perhaps because it's been winter, and all the windows were shut making it less noticeable.) She also lost a dog within the last year or so, and though that dog didn't start the barking usually, the dogs fed off each other's barking and the sessions would last longer.
For some reason, sound pollution seems to me to be more egregious an offense than clutter and/or weeds...
I *have* suggested to her that 7:30am might be a little early for yardwork involving power lawn tools, though.... mostly because i was leaving for work, and I knew my wife was still sleeping.
I try to do most of my gardening with hand tools. Anyone have good push mower tune up tips? (partially rhetorical question, the mower is in reasonable shape now... and i havn't done my part by googling first.... just trying to bring the topic back to gardens. ;)
There is just something soothing about the reel mower whirr. I've considered starting a company to do "quiet" gardening using hand or silent electric tools. wondering if it would go over, or be prohibitively expensive.
--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
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Why wait until morning? If the neighbor's dog barks at nighttime, call her on the phone right away. If she's working, the voicemail will record the time so you don't have to think about it. If she doesn't hear the barking because she's watching TV or something, maybe she will put a stop to it. If she's sleeping peacefully through all the commotion and you're not, wake her.
I'm just that way. I had a roommate borrow a lighter after I went to sleep one evening (without permission). In the morning I felt like a smoke, so I woke him up.
"It's a shame you had to wake me up for *that*."
"Yeah, it is."
It didn't happen again.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
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dated 16 Jun 2005 15:15:50 -0400:

Even better: Get someone else to handle the problem for you. Call the cops, and keep calling them every time the stupid dog barks in the middle of the night. They HATE dealing with this kind of stuff, so they, in turn, will get all over the animal control people, and if there are existing laws for dealing with barking vermin, the barking will stop, or the dog will be hauled off to the pound, where it will soon be put to death. That's the right solution.
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