AArgh... neighbors

[Ann]

Bourne Identity expounded:

Bylaws, county rules, whatever. It's just sad that people have to have a rule force them to use common sense.

[Vox Humana]

Common sense like you wrote a earlier?

"one of my evil dreams is to buy a house on Main Street in Hingham, paint it orange and black, with a nice loud Harley parked in the tin shed out front "

And she wonders why we have laws! Did someone mention that you would be a hideous neighbor?

[Ann]

"Vox Humana" expounded:

A humorous neighbor, anyone but you would know I was joking. But you're so bent on hating everything about me you're blind to it. Like I said, get over yourself. Quit proving you are the one who would be 'hideous' to live next to.

[John Bachman]

I am the current owner of my land. I decide what will happen while I own it.

I have aerial photos of my land that go back 70 years. During the interim it has been field, forest, and thanks to me, field again. Which way should it be? That is decided by the owner.

The owner decides what is special. To each as he sees fit.

People are transient, so are their decisions. The forest is patient and will do what forests do.

JMHO

John

[Sue in Western Maine]

And there ARE weed trees......... 30 or 40 years ago someone planted a living wind-break // snow fence on the property line between our current property and our current neighbor. A row of alternating Poplar and White Pine. The Poplar are now in their senesence and already this year we have felled 4 ( for stove-wood) and a 5th has fallen on its own. The White Pines need the space we provide by taking the ailing /dying Poplar.

Our neighbors and I agree that we LIKE the row of White Pines, we are comfortable with and appreciate the "look" it gives to our contiguous property. WE ALSO agree that the Poplars need to be felled before they fall. They fall on OUR side of the line, WE slice and dice and WE keep the stove wood for our efforts. The neighbors do not use firewood. Works FOR US BOTH

I think there are 8 more Poplar that will be stove-wood in the next year or

2. Another of our property lines abuts the Town Maintained Road. On this line we have 3 massive Sugar Maple, some significant Red Pine, and 5 mature clumps of White Birch.

Well, those White Birch are darn pretty trunks and folks always tell us how lovely they are, but looking up into their canopy tells the tale that those White Birch will be on the ground in a year or 3 also. As they overhang the Town Road, the Town may decide to take them before they create a hazard, and we would be out the heating fuel from the stove wood. OF COURSE we will take them before the town road crew gets them. Town road crew won't be getting OUR firewood. There is heating fuel in those trees!

The Sugar Maple and the Red Pine are Keepers, their size is testimony to their age and their age is testimony to both husbandship of this property, and to the age of our house ( circa 1814).

The blessing in our Small Woodlot Management is that there is replacement and regeneration, naturally, over time. Already there are more White Birch, Red Pine, Sugar Maple as well as Oak and White Pine in the understory needing sun and open space to prosper and reach maturity.

Oaks?? Where did our little OAKs come from??? Oh Years ago, there were

2 HUGE Oak ( I never saw them standing, but can still find the remains of stumps) and generations of squirrel did their best to help save their food supply.

We do routinely harvest mature woodcrop here on a tiny 2 acre parcel. Please note that we are harvesting only WEED TREES with a naturally short lifespan, and MATURE/DYING/HAZARD trees, while creating space for the natural renewal of resources.

WE may not see the harvest of the new crop in OUR lifetime, but the next owners of this property will, by nature and nurture, recieve their benefits in beauty and bounty.

Trees wear big shoes... They cast shadows to cool, they divert wind to save your heat bill. They divert water by their roots, and divert snow by their branches and girth.

Their height and breadth can squash property, but the wood from those trees harvested at the right time can help heat your house and create dancing firelight on your hearth.

Sue Western Maine

Never underestimate a Tree, it has all matter of value as your friend, but can be your certain enemy in an ill wind. Think of your trees as you think of your neighbors, both in life and death.

[Spud Demon]

Philip Lewis writes in article dated 16 Jun 2005 15:15:50 -0400:

Why wait until morning? If the neighbor's dog barks at nighttime, call her on the phone right away. If she's working, the voicemail will record the time so you don't have to think about it. If she doesn't hear the barking because she's watching TV or something, maybe she will put a stop to it. If she's sleeping peacefully through all the commotion and you're not, wake her.

I'm just that way. I had a roommate borrow a lighter after I went to sleep one evening (without permission). In the morning I felt like a smoke, so I woke him up.

"It's a shame you had to wake me up for *that*."

"Yeah, it is."

It didn't happen again.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

[Suzy O]

It will take 30 years to replace the tree. Resolving barking dogs, unruly kids, loud music and late night parties, unkept or ugly neighboring property problems will all be resolved long before the tree can be replaced. The problems you bring up are transitional, and believe me, as a renter for 20+ years, I've dealt with the gamut of miserable neighbors. However, a tree lost is gone -- forever.

Suzy O

[Suzy O]

No doubt most property owners in the US have every right to cut down trees or eliminate all vegetation and pave everything over. My question is, what about stewardship for that which we own/control? I my mind, that is a larger issue than a neighbor losing a shady area. For anyone who thinks that cutting a tree down, especially in an urban area, is no big deal, perhaps it would be worthwhile to look into why other folks think trees are so valuable.

But, as I mentioned earlier, it will take another 30 years to replace that tree. Beside the loss of shade, I definitely got the impression that the OP was also upset because the neighbors cut the tree down in one week without considering the short AND long term effect (in the OP's mind anyway).

Just my take on the subject............

Suzy O

[Suzy O]

I suspect the original windbreak planter meant for the poplars to be removed when the slower growing white pine filled out. The only recommended use for poplars that I know of is to have something fill in an area FAST. Removing the poplars, which are now very elderly trees, is probably just what the original tree planter had in mind. Go for it!

Suzy O

[Suzy O]

Couldn't agree more. We had just such a situation in our neighborhood. Neighbor of junker got fed up with looking at the crud. Even tho it was in violation of city ordinances, the city only stopped the problem temporarily -- over and over again. The junker's neighbor got a low ball price for his home.

Anyone have any good solutions?

Suzy O

[Hound Dog]

A tree that will eventually grow to be 50' tall and 50' wide should never be planted on a small residential lot.

Such a tree will not only effect the owner of the property the tree is on, but the property of at least eight other neighbors.

To you perhaps the other problems I mentioned are small things that will only last a short while, but that's not so.

Barking dogs may live for 20 years or more then might be replaced with other untrained dogs by uncaring neighbors.

Loud, unruly kids could be around for a decade or so to be replaced by God only knows how many more generations of grandkids.

A neighbor that is not keeping his property up now, may never do so.

That lone complaining neighbor may be angry about the tree being chopped down, but I just wonder how many others that have been effected by the tree's shadow for countless years are happy the tree will soon be burning in someone's fireplace.

[Janet Baraclough]

The message from Ann contains these words:

No, it's about the common good of society being more important than any individual

Here, that tree would have a Protection Order placed on it. Of course, a protection order can't withstand a chainsaw but it does mean that anyone who cut it down would pay a huge fine.

Janet.

[Doug Kanter]

Even better: Get someone else to handle the problem for you. Call the cops, and keep calling them every time the stupid dog barks in the middle of the night. They HATE dealing with this kind of stuff, so they, in turn, will get all over the animal control people, and if there are existing laws for dealing with barking vermin, the barking will stop, or the dog will be hauled off to the pound, where it will soon be put to death. That's the right solution.

[Doug Kanter]

In some towns, you can actually speak to the town judge, outside of a courtroom setting. Push him/her to take the law to its most extreme conclusion, which MAY involve having the town remove the junk and place a lien on the neighbor's home. Some judges will also issue injunctions to force people to obey the law. That gives the cops the ability to take them away in handcuffs.

[Doug Kanter]

Remember, Janet, that this is a country where some people interpret our constitution to mean that you can do anything you damned well please, as long as it's within the law. So, try telling someone with a fat SUV that it's silly to own one if they don't actually need a truck-type vehicle for towing or other similar purpose that's appropriate to such a vehicle. Probably half the time, the response will be "Oh....it's OK...I can afford the gasoline". They'll completely miss the point that it's obscene to waste resources. The other typical response, if you mention air quality, is that "those environmentalists have yet to prove blah blah blah....".

The trees have an uphill battle on their hands.

[William Wagner]

Anyone every read Ecotopia? Lord Fouls Bane by Donaldson another worth a look. Both wonderful but a word of warning. Lord Foul is the first of a series of eight. In the end only women ..... Nah....check them out from your local library.

"Tell the lords in Riverstone there is no hope for the land."

Bill

[Bourne Identity]

My answer is no. I feel I definitely own the land I live on, but ownership to me means I have been given the rights to be the steward, not the destructor of what I like and don't like because it's mine.

We are going to be removing a Palo Verde tree in the fall because where it came up (after we moved in on its own...probably some seeds in the compost we bought) and is next to the pool. It constantly drops flowers and tiny leaves and pollen all summer. However, that is not the giant live oak with a trunk having a 5 foot diameter which also poops off tons and tons of leaves, twigs, and assorted other crap into the pool. I would never do anything to harm that tree. An arborist told us that tree, along with the other three on our property are approximately 300 years old. I cherish those trees. People who live in New England where the sun doesn't bake soil till it cracks have no real idea how trees are valued by people in the south.

If I recall, Toni the original poster lives in the deep south. To remove a tree down there is almost a tragedy. But like I said, everybody has their issue and eventually it gets hit.

Victoria

[Bourne Identity]

No, Ann. You turned it into being about property owners rights. Toni was posting that her inconsiderate new neighbors just cut the tree down one day with not even as much as a notice. If they have an ounce of civility, they'd have gone over to her and told her. This is not about property rights, it's about being a human being, living among other human beings and having some self-awareness and how we impact others.

Where it can be cut down at any time.

[Bourne Identity]

Which boils down to one conclusion; you seem to be a rather angry, unhappy person. I truly feel for you.

[Bourne Identity]

How about rapists? Should they too suffer the rule which forces them to have common sense?