Let me restate the problem: I am having lunch in a cafe and an armed person walks in. This person is not a peace officer. Do I put some money on the counter and leave? Should I assume that this person is not a miscreant? How do I make this determination? j4
The police in Buffalo have had an annual gun buy-back for the last three or four years. The majority of the guns being turned in are sporting rifles that belonged to the deceased husbands of the widows turning them if. By what I have seen on TV in the quick pan of the camera I'd guess the rifles were worth $300 - $1000 and they turned them in for $50.
IIRC, Ol' Keeter had a name of those that took advantage of "widow wimen" like that.
Last year a guy was trying to buy selected firearms from the people waiting in line to turn them in. I believe he was willing to pay a fair price for the rifles. The police ran him off under threat of arrest.
By his behaviors... Also, it wouldn't be valid to assume no uniform means non-LEO. Could be plain clothes or off-duty. The press has reported on several shootings recently that involved off duty and retired LEOs who were being victimized. The perps happened to pick the wrong victims!
Gentlemen and ladies;
The Supreme Court of the United States has decreed that NO ONE has a RIGHT to police protection. The cops are there to protect the PUBLIC only.
Several years ago a Mother in New England killed an intruder in her house who was threatening her and her DAUGHTER. The criminal justice system and the law threw her in to prison for many years because the MOTHER could have fled the basement where she and her daughter had been forced by the intruder.
Dave N
What is he doing with the weapon. Is it in his hand or on his waist?
Personally I like the perp who tries to rob the cop bar....
Lew-
From your posts I'm getting the impression that you;re a gun prohibitionist or an advocate of major gun restrictions.
If so please consider the unintended consequences of your desired (or so it seems) courses of action
prohibition of alcohol & drugs were (& are) a huge failure and a major source of income to the criminal element; gun prohibiton would only be worse....just take a look at Mexico, private gun ownership is severely restricted. The govt of Mexico prefers its "subjects" to be unarmed.
if you think US citizens should be disarmed or have all weapons "registered"......consider this
How about posting a sign like this in your private front yard (if you have one)
"To whom it may concern, there are no firearms in this home" or more simply "Gun free home :) "
additionally a gun registration system (like state DMV's) could easily be hacked by criminals or subverted by employees........the gun registration lists (addresses basically) would be great "day time burglary targets", the "no gun address" would be great home invasion or night time (hot) break in's.
check out the CDC or the FBI stats.......the US doesn't have a gun problem, the source & solution lies elsewhere. :) take the time to research, read & assimilate the data
cheers Bob
Here in L/A, the gun issue revolves around drugs and the gang wars.
Almost every night there is a report on the evening news of a drive by shooting in broad daylight, often with heart breaking results.
Not uncommon for an innocent kid, often under the age of 10, to be gunned down in the cross walk as a gang car drives down the street shooting anything in sight in an attempt to capture turf.
Having a bunch of over weight, middle aged guys, toting fire arms to challenge these gangs is simply not going to happen.
Thinking someone is going to cross your threshold after dark, armed to the teeth, and steal your wife's jewelry, your cash and who knows what else is again extremely remote.
Even if they do, the probability an individual will shoot first, think later is al;so remote.
Before you actually kill another human being, you will probably pause for just a moment, a moment's delay which can cost you your life.
These thugs don't have a problem invading your house during the day when the house is unoccupied; however, breaking into an occupied house after dark is a totally different matter.
The difference, if they get caught is some where around 10 years to life, if I remember.
These people aren't very bright, but they aren't that stupid either.
Steal during the day, sleep at night.
Just some thoughts.
Lew
Is his firearm in hand or holstered? Concealed or on his hip? What state are you eating lunch in?
I would rely on (& suggest you do so as well) my situational awareness, my ability to "profile" and read body language.
btw...LOE's kill more of the "wrong" guys than do private citizens.....its complicated but their shootings are justified as "being per policy, the victim is still just as dead or wounded. :)
visit the CDC & the FBI websites and immerse yourself in the data
the "success" of the recetn buy buybacks might be somewhat influenced by the recession?
cheers Bob
They're pay $100 bucks for turned in guns?! Do you have to prove it's illegal?
In Some locales here you can probably find one in the 7-11 dumpster, should you forget yours while on the way to rob the place. :()
Most of them these days are on METH and don't know what Planet they're on, never mind what the difference in jail time might be.
The purpose of law enforcement is many-fold:
One purpose of law enforcement is NOT to protect the individual or public. They have no duty to do so.
Actually the reverse is true. The masses are seeing the silliness of disarmament.
"On guns, Gallup has been testing opinion for many years on one extreme proposal that is the goal, usually unstated, of many gun-control advocates: banning the possession of handguns. Support was 60 percent in 1960 and 49 percent in 1965. It was as high as 43 percent in the early 1990s, before the Clinton Congress passed the so-called assault weapons ban. In March 2007, it had fallen to 29 percent -- a minority, almost a fringe position."
In forty years, support for the notion that handguns should be banned has fallen by half and is now about even with the percentage of the American public that favors a monarchy.
In 1987, Florida enacted a "shall issue" concealed handgun permit law. "Shall issue" means that if an individual meets the statutory requirement (stand up, hear thunder, see lightning), the responsible authority MUST issue the license - no discretion is permitted. Since then, 38 additional states have enacted "shall issue" regulations. Nine other states have some sort of discretionary-issue system. Only two states (Illinois and Wisconsin) and the District of Columbia prohibit concealed carry under all conditions.
In every state where concealed handgun legislation has become effective, the trend is toward loosening of the strictures. For example, Tennessee's original law prohibited concealed handgun permit holders from entering an establishment where alcohol was served. Just this past week, the Tennessee legislature effectively repealed that restriction. There has been no case where gun legislation has been tightened with regard to handguns since 1987.
The original Texas law in this regard prohibited concealed carry in churches. That restriction was repealed four years ago. Now a person with a valid license may carry his weapon in a religious establishment. Lest you think churches are no place for guns, I refer you to the shoot-out at New Life Church in Colorado Springs. There a female member of the congregation - with a concealed handgun license - blew away a maniac before he could get past the front door and endanger the 7,000 people in attendance.
Arrest for what - it's more than an academic interest. I'll sure try what he attempted if there's ever a buy-back program in my neighborhood.
'Course the laws in Texas are way different than New York. One person hands over money, the other hands over the gun(s). The state is not involved in any way. No permits, no registration, no restrictions on private sales (other than you cannot KNOWINGLY sell to a person not legally entitled to own a weapon: felon, child, mentally deranged, alien, hippie, etc.).
Arizona is an open carry state, meaning that it is legal to carry a weapon in plain sight. Somebody walks into a cafe so carrying, if they are not acting beligerent or threatening (potential felonies if one has a weapon by the way), then you enjoy your dinner knowing that you aren't going to need to worry about a Luby's style shooter in that cafe.
The purpose of law enforcement is to protect society. That does not necessarily mean protecting *you* personally. If they happen to be in the right place, at the right time, then protecting you personally is a plus. However, in protecting society, that generally means investigating the crime scene, taking evidence, and attempting to find the perp before they commit another crime. If insufficient evidence can be found, then they wait until another crime is committed by the perp and repeat.
*You* on the other hand are where you are all the time. Do you know the response time for the police to arrive where you live? How much time is that for someone to do something? People should take some responsibility for their own defense. That may or may not mean having a firearm. It may mean having mace, pepper spray, a rapid response alarm system, etc.Really, latest polls tend to show otherwise.
As posted previously, people do defend themselves and have prevented heinous crimes from taking place:
Yeah, because all those self-respecting gang bangers will look at the opportunity to get $100 for a $1500 AR as a great service to society. As Nova points out, this is probably taking advantage of widows and others who don't realize what they have or appreciate it.
Hmm, there's an on topic idea -- an old plane buy-back program.
Makes one wonder if he knows anything at all about guns.
Also, if I hafta shoot someone in self defense, it's gonna be to kill. I don't want the perp disputing my version of events and/or hiring some dirtbag shyster to file a civil suit against me cuz his winkie's been whacked.
nb
"HeyBub" wrote: ====================================
When I got done with it, it would be.
That's enough to castrate the target.
Don't plan on missing so no need to reload.
Reminds me of my father telling me how he learned to shoot as a young kid in southern Indiana.
As a 6 year old, was given a single shot .22 and a single cartridge, then told to go shoot breakfast.
Didn't go hungry more than a couple of times before he learned how to shoot.
SFWIW, he could bark a squirrel at 50 ft well into his 40's when it became bifocal time and he lost it.
Who is talking about a shotgun or a car?
No desire but don't bet me.
MIL is dead, don't have a person of the cloth to visit.
Have no plans to conceal.
Matter of fact, want everybody within 50 miles that I have it, have an absolutely nasty personality, and would just as soon shoot as breathe, especially if you enter my bed room.
Which is why I called it illegal.
Try less than 8"-9" complete with both stock and barrels.
Strictly illegal, but a hell of a weapon to have in a bar fight.
Lew
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