LOL! Good one! I'm always fascinated by assumptions that lead to
wrong conclusions. Which assumption of yours led you astray and why
did you make that assumption in the first place?
What does competing with Walmart have to do with Walmart hiring illegal
immigrants, locking employees in stores, not paying overtime, sexual
discrimination, etc.? Which of your relatives would you want some of
those things to happen to? Are you saying that those shady practices
are what gives Walmart the edge? Give me an edge and you can go screw
yourself? Is that how you believe capitalism is supposed to work?
BTW, we're not in a capitalist society. Them there are buzz words that
people like to hang on to. Our economy has capitalistic tendencies.
We're actually in a mixed economy where the government regulates a
large portion of it. It is not a free market and it is not a
capitalist economy. Turn of the 20th century America was far closer to
a capitalist economy. That was the era of robber barons, market
manipulation and monopolistic trusts. As, those were the days, eh?
Where did I ever say that kind of behavior is OK? I never defended those
practices, those practices are illegal, and if they are legitimately
happening, then they should be prosecuted for it.
This conversation started out by people saying that Wal-mart is "screwing"
their employees with no benefits and low wage. This is what I have a problem
That's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"
were in the employ of third-party contractors.
So show us the "numerous times".
Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section 135.05 of the
Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the class of
occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of the NYC
Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was prevented
that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment in the First
Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the manager in the slammer
for four years.
Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the cops
and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and explain the
problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the door down.
busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"
Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you.
A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to
pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the
responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the
Before or after beating the crap out of the boss?
investigation evolved out of two prior immigration operations that
began in 1998 and 2001, respectively. These operations targeted
cleaning contractors that were hiring unauthorized workers from Eastern
The follow-up investigation culminated on October 23, 2003, with a
series of immigration enforcement actions at some 60 Wal-Mart stores in
21 states. In these actions, ICE agents arrested approximately 245
illegal aliens employed by cleaning contractors and put these
individuals into deportation proceedings."
It was a sting operation where the feds descended on numerous stores..
There were numerous busts. I also am not sure how much more severe of
a situation it would need to be to satisfy you that it was egregious.
There were a dozen companies and the single largest fine in US history
for hiring illegal immigrants. If it were an isolated incident, and
not a pattern of abuse, there wouldn't have been such a large fine.
I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors
that hired the illegal immigrants. Then I reply that obviously Walmart
was aware of it, that it was a pattern of abuse that Walmart took
advantage of to line their coffers, and why they ended up paying a fine
almost three times as much as the 12 subcontractors' fines combined.
Then you call my heritage into question, I pop you one, we scuffle for
a while, then get winded pretty quickly being old farts, and we retire
to a local tavern for some libations and to trade war stories. It's a
formula, but it works. ;)
61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?
I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you
prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store
at a time? That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page
from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the
economies of scale.
Bust - Slang.
a. an arrest.
b. a police raid.
Notice that the articles 'an' and 'a' - those are singular in nature.
There were multiple raids, at multiple locations, and multiple people
BF, the poster who used the word numerous, wrote: Walmart has also
been busted numerous times for paying below minimum wage to illegal
245 illegal aliens were arrested and deported from those raids - that's
numerous...at least in most people's definitions of the word.
Numerous - adj : amounting to a large indefinite number; "numerous
times"; "the family was numerous"
I'm kind of surprised that you've gotten so hung up on a word. I would
think that you would have more to offer than simply asking for
citations, references and definitions. Information on Walmart's
practices is readily available on the net if you care to look. Of
course if your mind is already made up, that's unnecessary. Facts
might muddy the waters of your clear thinking.
Sheesh. You must be kidding me.
The paragraph that starts with "On Oct. 23,..."
And if you like the bizarre:
This takes the cake, though:
Notice how long it takes Walmart to pay off a $11 million dollar fine?
16 hours of sales. Wow. Boy, I bet that taught them a lesson.
Inspector General began an investigation after Wal-Mart was fined
$135,540 for child labor law violations in what critics called a
"sweetheart deal." The settlement also required the department to
provide 15 days of notice to Wal-Mart's headquarters before inspecting
any store." Well, hell, I'd love that too. I wonder if I could get
OSHA to announce their visits two weeks in advance? That $135K fine
was paid by 15 seconds of sales by Walmart.
This stuff should piss you off. It makes me wonder why it doesn't.
And stop making me do your homework for you. That's not what I'm here
There's plenty of information on Walmart's practices if you want to
learn as opposed to just having an uniformed opinion.
J. Clarke stated in one of his earliest posts on this topic that he was
no fan of Walmart. I get the feeling that you are a big fan. That's
all fine and dandy. There's a lot of good in the company, and they've
certainly dragged retailing into the 21st century. But there's no need
to defend the bad things about someone/something you like. That's
loyal, for sure, but it's also stupid. I don't think you're a stupid
You must know that your _opinion_ carries weight. You don't have to
picket outside of the store to make your voice heard. Just let people
know what a particular company is doing right and what a company is
doing wrong. Negative publicity will affect their bottom line, and in
the corporate world, that's the only thing that they hear.
So out of all of the illegals, only 10 were actual Wal-mart employees....
yeah, that shows an obvious history of Wal-mart employing illegals.
Not sure what the point of this is... this is neither here nor there.
It doesn't "piss me off" because I am rational. I understand that Wal-mart
is a very large corporation, they are worlds largest retailer and the
largest private employer in the United States, so I realize that there are
going to be isolated cases of misbehavior.
The "illegal aliens" charges don't piss me off because they are bogus, you
shouldn't be holding a company responsible for the employees of another
company with whom they contract with.
If you have a new roof put on your house and it turns out some of those
roofers are illegal, should you be held responsible? Of course not. This is
essentially what they are doing to Wal-mart, and many other companies.
You haven't pointed out anything I didn't already know. I was hoping you had
something substantial against the great evil Wal-Mart.
I'm a fan of businesses in general.
Where have I defended the "bad things" they have done? Go ahead and quote
You have taken it to the opposite extreme of what you have accused me of.
You are condemning them as a whole company because of some perceived bad
things, and have taken it to the point of out right slandering the company
by misrepresenting facts to support your opinion.
Isn't it libel since I'm writing it?
I am by no means condemning Walmart in toto. I've already said that.
You do remember my writing that Walmart dragged the retail business
into the 21st century, don't you? They are industry leaders, they are
one of, if not the largest companies/employers in the world. These are
amazing things. All of this started by a guy who lived in the same
ranch house for 35 years while he was becoming a billionaire, and who
said that his favorite food was his wife's meatloaf. Sam Walton was/is
an idol of mine. Sam's dead.
There's an old saying - with great power comes great responsibility.
There aren't many _countries_ that have as much power as Walmart. They
need to step up on the responsibility to accompany that power.
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:59:10 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
Notice that you have not stated from what source you took this definition.
The statement that there were "numerous busts" implies that Wal-Mart was
busted, taken to court, found guilty or innocent as the case may
be, continued the practice, was busted again, continued the practice, was
busted again, etc, numerous times. That is not what happened, what
happened was that they were raided, in many locations, as part of a single
unified police operation that led to a single trial and a single ruling.
It's not a matter of "being hung up on a word", it's a matter of not
letting you get away with a misleading accusation.
You're reading impaired, aren't you? Dyslexic? Having a senior moment
The raids took place over a period of years.
Just drop it, okay?
There is nothing misleading in saying that Walmart has exhibited a
pattern of maximizing profits by squeezing everyone and everything to
make a buck. Some of the squeezing took place by locking people in
stores, not paying overtime, hiring companies to distance themselves
from hiring illegal aliens when there are documents and recorded
conversations proving they knew of the illegals, having minors
operating machinery and violating child labor laws, I'm getting bored,
Nor is it your problem if they are, at least not legally. You have no
obligation, or even a legal ability to question their legal status.
That's the job of the owners of the company you contract with, not
And it's not Walmart's either.
Oh yeah, sure you would. Now, put your self in the place of the
"uneducated, unskilled" employee that Walmart preys on. No place else
to work, you're not calling the cops or pulling any fire alarms. It's
best not to try and put your self into the mindset of the people that
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