mailorder is for the birds

[prsyscon]

1) Ordered a JDS air cleaner from Amazon on the 17th, still hasn't shipped. Good luck to me finding a human to talk to at Amazon.

2) Ordered a Grizzly G0500 that came to me in a heap. Not that 1/4" OSB isn't a good choice for 400LB crates. And I'm supposed to lift it off the semi with no lift gate or help from the driver?!?!?!? Thank you, Grizzly!

3) Ordered a Dewalt planer from Woodworker Supply early last week, no word on it even though they took my e-mail address to keep me posted.

Once the states force the mailorder places to charge sales tax for all sales, and they will, those places will have a tough time justifying their bad service.

At least I picked up a nice Vaughn hammer at Fleet Farm, for $14. Anti-vibe this and fiberglass that, give me a good piece of hickory any day.

The R Man

[Bay Area Dave]

why not call their 800 number???

1-800-201-7575

I've never had any trouble getting them. they answer pretty quickly. I think you can call 24/7...

dave

prsysc> 1) Ordered a JDS air cleaner from Amazon on the 17th, still hasn't

[WP Gaeddert]

I dunno, I've had great service from Lee Valley Tools. Haven't ordered anything large, but I've always gotten the merchandise within a couple of days.

[LRod]

Not going to happen by the states. The Supreme Court has twice ruled on this issue, and the last time was fairly recently (about 10 years ago; well since the explosion in mail order purchasing). Essentially, in both cases (the second basically reaffirmed the first with the addition of some modern issues and some instructions), the Court ruled that the states' attempt to force retailers to collect tax on out-of-state purchases violated the Commerce clause of the Constitution. They told the states that they could not force retailers collect tax unless they had a "physical presence" in that state. That's why Amazon charges sales tax in Washington.

In the most recent case the Court specifically told the states that their recourse is in the Congress, not the courts. The mail order business lobby is fairly robust and Congress hasn't expressed much interest in helping the states (and all of the other myriad taxing bodies) collect all of that tax.

Somewhere I have links to both rulings. If you really can't DAGS, I'll try to find them and post them.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

[Charlie Self]

No idea what's happening, but I get the feeling Amazon does a lot of drop-ship orders. That takes extra time.

Armor plate wouldn't be enough for some of the handling crates get. Why do you jump Grizzly for a stated policy of the carrier? That's standard and it's also stated on most order bills that you have to arrange for help if you wish it, or pay extra for a tailgate lift.

A whole week? A----------------mazing, as my MBA ex-boss used to say.

Many of the mail order places already have to charge sales taxes. They're still doing well.

Charlie Self "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

[Lew Hodgett]

"Charlie Self's" SIG File stated:

My favorite "Satchelism":

Don't look over your shoulder, it might be gaining on you.

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

FWIW, dosen't Grizzly make it clear about how their tools ship?

Right on the site:

"PLEASE NOTE: The trucking company will notify you prior to delivery to make arrangements. Truck drivers are subject to a number of regulations, one of which is that they are not required to give any assistance in unloading. Please be prepared for this "curbside" delivery, as you are responsible for unloading the item(s) and placing them in your shop. This normally takes a number of "friends". We recommend that you make arrangements with the trucking company to take delivery at the freight terminal if you can. They will load it on your vehicle. Make sure your vehicle is capable of handling the weight. Also, bring plenty of tie downs to properly secure the load"

Barry

[Jay Pique]

Heh. You learn something every day. I figured Keller Williams was quoting someone, but never knew who.

JP

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I hope they do start charging the tax soon. That way, when I do buy mail order it will be paid with the order and I won't have to keep track of all of it to send my money to the state.

[Wes Stewart]

|prsyscon writes: | |>

|>1) Ordered a JDS air cleaner from Amazon on the 17th, still hasn't |>shipped. Good luck to me finding a human to talk to at Amazon.

I buy books and CDs at Amazon. I buy tools at Tool Crib. Same company different process. Use the 800 number. Besides you get a customer number, a catalog and some freebies sometimes.

| |No idea what's happening, but I get the feeling Amazon does a lot of drop-ship |orders. That takes extra time.

Could be although when I ordered my Jet DC I was told I would get it the following Friday. Friday came, along with the 4" hose I also ordered and a "Backorder" notice. I called (thankfully I didn't order from Amazon) and was told that it was now in stock and I would get it

*next* Friday. Well, almost, it came the Monday after the next Friday.

| |>2) Ordered a Grizzly G0500 that came to me in a heap. Not that 1/4" OSB |>isn't a good choice for 400LB crates. |>And I'm supposed to lift it off the semi with no lift gate or help from |>the driver?!?!?!? |>Thank you, Grizzly!

Well, they tell you that, but agreed they seem to get a lot of complaints about damaged goods. I'm *very* seriously leaning toward them for a TS but the damage reports make me hesitant. Are you listening Grizzly?

| |Armor plate wouldn't be enough for some of the handling crates get. Why do you |jump Grizzly for a stated policy of the carrier? That's standard and it's also |stated on most order bills that you have to arrange for help if you wish it, or |pay extra for a tailgate lift. | |>3) Ordered a Dewalt planer from Woodworker Supply early last week, no |>word on it even though they took my e-mail address to keep me posted | |A whole week? A----------------mazing, as my MBA ex-boss used to say.

Get a tracking number.

| |>Once the states force the mailorder places to charge sales tax for all |>sales, and they will, those places will have a tough time justifying |>their bad service.

I don't know about the states doing it, but when it happens (when, not if) then the local suppliers will get my business. Woodcraft and Woodworkers's Source already have the same listed prices as the Internet/mail order folks, but 7% tax + shipping makes the decision for me.

| |Many of the mail order places already have to charge sales taxes. They're still |doing well.

If a business has a bricks and mortar location within a taxing jurisdiction then they charge tax, even if you buy it out of state. Of course if you can convince them to send an empty box to Podunk where there is no tax and you take the goods home.....

In AZ, the tax is really on the seller, although they are allowed to pass it through to the buyer. Sort of like the Mafia types running Qwest (oops sorry, I'm giving the Mafia a bad name.) They have some "taxes" that they pass through, with a substantial markup, that they claim are "authorized" by the FCC. The inference is that they are "required" by the FCC to collect from the customer. In fact, the fee is assessed by the FCC on Qwest, not the customer.

[Charlie Self]

Lew Hodgett responds:

And he's right. It is.

Charlie Self "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige

[Gerald Ross]

[George]

Conspiracy theories aside, the wording on a utility bill is designed to satisfy the PSC of the state in which the service is provided. It now becomes a cost of doing business outside the jurisdiction of the PSC. Considering the glacial pace of those august bureaucracies, it's probably the only way the company can keep liquid. You pay to ensure that the "deserving" can have a phone even if they can't afford one, to ensure that all long-distance services have to pay a similar access charge, even if it's to themselves, and with further deregulation, you may have a charge from the owner of the copper to your house which is assessed independent of the charges by the owner of the switch that processes the call.

If you look, you'll find that the profit margins of PSC regulated utilities are independent of the marketplace.

[George]

Snicker....

[Steve]

Actually, Arizona has a retail sales taxation situation that's very similar to the majority of the rest of the States'. It's properly known as a "Transaction PriveledgeTax" and more commonly called a "Sales and Use Tax". The onus of the Sales Tax is placed upon the seller of (tangible) goods when the seller has physical presence in the State.

The seller is required to pay the tax, not the buyer. However, the seller is allowed to add the amount of taxes due on the transaction and collect that amount from the buyer (pass it along) at the time of the sale. The seller then has to turn the "tax" colected over to the State. (Actually, the seller is required to turn over the taxes due on the sale whether the seller collects from the buyer or not!)

When a buyer purchases from an out-of-state seller (such as Amazon), the transaction is indeed NOT "tax-free" -- the purchaser is legally obligated to pony up the amount of the transaction priveledge taxes that are due on the purchase -- that's called "Use Tax". Needles to say, the State receives very few dollars passed into its coffers by upstanding folks who volunteer to pay their "use tax" on mail-order purchases.

One notable exception to Use-Tax avoidance came about a few years ago, though when a number of "enterprising" auto dealers in Phoenix got the bright idea that they could sell a few extra tons of cars "Tax Free" to buyers!

The dealers set up base on the Sovereign Territory of some of the Indian Reservations (a _Very_ Large_Percentage_ of Arizona's total land area, BTW). Buyers took delivery of their vehicles "out of the country" and thus it seemed as if the Transaction Priveledge Tax didn't apply.

Those buyers got a rude awakening from the ADOR folks and the Counties when they were hit for Use Tax (in the amount of the so-called Sales Tax). They were made to pay that tax before they were allowed to pay the rest of the taxes due when they registered their vehicles :-)

(Oh, and I wouldn't worry about hurting Qwest's feelings :-) Cox Comunications' phone "service" is soooooo baaaaaad that they make Qwest _seem_ like a gift of the gods.)

[Frank Ketchum]

Well, I've had no problems with any of the Grizzly tools I've purchased, but I actually read the terms when I purchased them and thus expected to unload them myself. I have the G0500 also, and it had no damage at all to it or to the crate. Obviously thier choice of material is fine for 400 pounds of machinery.

Just in case you are unaware, they also will not come to your shop to assemble your tools or run them for you either.

Frank

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

George, It's really not funny. Here in CT, where Ed and I live, we actually have a line item on our state income tax that requires us to list tax due on out of state purchases.

Just 'cause it isn't collected at the time of the transaction dosen't mean it isn't due. 8^(

Barry

[George]

Got the same in MI. Same rate of compliance, I'll wager.

I paid for the business, of course, because it was just passed through.

[Tim Douglass]

Every tax on every business is always and exclusively passed on to the consumer in one way or another. You cannot tax businesses, only people. If a business doesn't pass the tax on to the consumer they pass it on to their stockholders. Taxes *always* stop at some person.

Think about this carefully, misunderstanding of this basic fact is part of the reason we have such a messed up tax system in this country. (U.S.) Other countries may have their own messed up tax systems, but I'm not familiar with them.

Tim Douglass

[Charlie Self]

Sounds like WV. No matter where you bought a vehicle, or when, if you register it in WV, you pay a 5% transfer fee.

Essentially, a sales tax on something that was not sold in this state, was never before in the state, on which sales and other pertinent taxes had already been paid elsewhere.

That was the first indication I wasn't really going to be happy here.

Charlie Self "To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook